Hitler's plan to invade tURKEY...

[Osttruppen]

Operation "Gertrud", this is a historical fact, Adolf Hitler had a plan to destroy tURKEY in 1943, as most of our stupid Armenian historians say, "If Germans weren't stopped by Stalingrad in 1943 turks would invade Armenia because they were allies of Germany", this point of view is an absolute lie! It's a comunist propaganda which's working till this day, how could turks be allies of Germany if there was a German plan of destroying turkey? I'd like to read the thoughts of smart Armenian members who are not looking at this like "hey! dirty nazi pig! stop your propaganda here!":rolleyes: Those who are stupid and have no facts I ask not to post at this thread.

[skhara]

Operation "Gertrud", this is a historical fact, Adolf Hitler had a plan to destroy tURKEY in 1943,

The internet has a ton of information. I googled this "Operation Gertrud"

tried several different spellings. There is, as a matter of fact almost no information regarding this.

There was no such plan -- the only thing I would give it is a thought or suggestion, that's all. Although I'm sure there was a "plan" for the USA as well.

I'm all ears though: you have any evidence for this claim?


as most of our stupid Armenian historians say, "If Germans weren't stopped by Stalingrad in 1943 turks would invade Armenia because they were allies of Germany"

Actually, these historians are not so stupid at all. For one, "alliance" has nothing to do with the fact. In 1942-1943 Hitler was already in trouble -- a Turkish incursion into the Caucasus would have been a blessing for the Germans as it would have brought relief on them. As a matter of fact, the turks had signed "friendship pacts" with both the "allies" and the "axis" and Hitler always prefered to win satelite states rather than military conflict.

What purpose would the destruction of turkey serve to the third reich's imperialist interest?

[D3ADSY]

Osttruppen, do you know of any surviving veterans in Armenia that served in any branch of the German armed forces during WWII?

[Osttruppen]

Osttruppen, do you know of any surviving veterans in Armenia that served in any branch of the German armed forces during WWII?

Sure I know, I have met an old men from Vanadzor in 2005, there are some other people too but I dont know them, I have information about Armenians who have served in Wehrmacht and SS, I have photos too.

[Osttruppen]

The internet has a ton of information. I googled this "Operation Gertrud"

tried several different spellings. There is, as a matter of fact almost no information regarding this.

There was no such plan -- the only thing I would give it is a thought or suggestion, that's all. Although I'm sure there was a "plan" for the USA as well.

I'm all ears though: you have any evidence for this claim?



Actually, these historians are not so stupid at all. For one, "alliance" has nothing to do with the fact. In 1942-1943 Hitler was already in trouble -- a Turkish incursion into the Caucasus would have been a blessing for the Germans as it would have brought relief on them. As a matter of fact, the turks had signed "friendship pacts" with both the "allies" and the "axis" and Hitler always prefered to win satelite states rather than military conflict.

What purpose would the destruction of turkey serve to the third reich's imperialist interest?

If you read Russian, find the newly published book of Eduard Abrahamyan called "Forgotten Legion", he has studied German archives for years, I dont have the book now but when I get it this couple of days I'll give you the exact source from where he found the information about operation "Gertrud".

P.S. some Russians in Stormfront didnt believe Operation "Gertrud", but they could somehow find info about it, I mean it's possible to find it, try to find the list of all operations planned by German Army.

[skhara]

So when were the NAZIs supposed to have drawn up this plan?

Who was to carry out the invasion?

[Osttruppen]

So when were the NAZIs supposed to have drawn up this plan?

Who was to carry out the invasion?


It was planned that till 1943 German Army would enter Transcaucasus, Armenia and Georgia would gain independance (there were Armenian and Georgian exile governments in Berlin waiting Armenia and Georgia to be liberated), when oil of Baku would be in the hands of Germans, Armenian Georgian armies from East, and Bulgarian, Greek and German armees from Greece and Bulgaria would invade turks. It was planned that turkey would be divided to sectors, Greek sector, Armenian(our historical lands and even more), and Georgian, which would be a part of Trapezund vilayet.

[skhara]

If you read Russian, find the newly published book of Eduard Abrahamyan called "Forgotten Legion", he has studied German archives for years, I dont have the book now but when I get it this couple of days I'll give you the exact source from where he found the information about operation "Gertrud".


I was hoping you knew of some online resource that would give information regarding this. I wouldn't even know where to start looking for this book.

P.S. some Russians in Stormfront didnt believe Operation "Gertrud", but they could somehow find info about it, I mean it's possible to find it, try to find the list of all operations planned by German Army.

Ok then please ask your Russian stormfront buddies who found it, to forward you the info if they could and pass it along.

It was planned that till 1943 German would enter Transcaucasus, Armenia and Georgia would gain independance (there were Armenian and Georgian exile governments in Berlin waiting Armenia and Georgia to be liberated),

What about Azerbaijan? As far as I know Azeris were also in NAZI units.

[skhara]

and Bulgarian, Greek and German armees from Greece and Bulgaria would invade turks.

This is why its improtant to establism what year they made that plan? While Bulgaria was an axis nation, Greece was not.

Just what army of Greeks would have been at the German disposal? At the time there was an extremely brutal isurection going on in Greece aimed at the German occupation. Greeks and Serbs were greatly responsible for the woes of the Third Reich's imperialist ambitions.

After the expulsion of the German forces from Greece, the Greek partisans went on to publicly hang women who had affairs with occupying Germans with signs reading "Prositute".

[ArmenianKid]

I for one am glad it didn't go down.

Turks or not, no one deserved the treatment they got under the german's rule.

[Fedayeen]

Interesting...

[hroape]

actually after hitler found out about armenia's aryan roots he began to praise armenians and hitler was the one who began to classify us as indo-european. Go read armenism-aryanism, thats the book that convinced Nazi leaders that we are aryan. After that Hitler was gna give armenia land back from turkey.

[Osttruppen]

I was hoping you knew of some online resource that would give information regarding this. I wouldn't even know where to start looking for this book.



Ok then please ask your Russian stormfront buddies who found it, to forward you the info if they could and pass it along.



What about Azerbaijan? As far as I know Azeris were also in NAZI units.

I can tell one more thing, during the war as conditions were changing Germans have changed the name of the plan too, in German archives Abrahamyan has found the name "Gertrud", but he wrote in the book that operation has been renamed for several times.
About azeris I dont know, but Germans needed a straight control of Baku's oil...
Azeris have never had citizenship of Reich, I mean passports with stamp "Aryan", but we Armenians had it...
There were azeri units, but an azeri soldier could never get married to a German woman, so I think they were used just as manpower.

[D3ADSY]

Wake up, all Soviet POWs who were allowed to serve were used just as manpower.

[Osttruppen]

This is why its improtant to establism what year they made that plan? While Bulgaria was an axis nation, Greece was not.

Just what army of Greeks would have been at the German disposal? At the time there was an extremely brutal isurection going on in Greece aimed at the German occupation. Greeks and Serbs were greatly responsible for the woes of the Third Reich's imperialist ambitions.

After the expulsion of the German forces from Greece, the Greek partisans went on to publicly hang women who had affairs with occupying Germans with signs reading "Prositute".

Operation "Gertrud" was planned for 1943, but as we know Germans failed in Stalingrad...
Germans have designed that after the Blitzkrieg, in 1943 Soviets would be almost destroyed, or withdrawed to far East, Armenia and Georgia would gain independance, with German support they would collect regular army on the base of Armenian and Georgian Legions in Wehrmacht, Alfred Rosenberg, German Reichsminister of occupied territories have met members of Armenian National Assembly in 1941, before the war would start, and they had something like agreement.

Greece was occupied by Germans but Greeks weren't only partisans, there were big Army units of Greek Right Wing supporters, and I repeat Germans were planing it for 1943, as they were thinking that Soviets would be almost done, and they were planing to place in Greece a pro-German government, so...

[Osttruppen]

Wake up, all Soviet POWs who were allowed to serve were used just as manpower.

...but kirgizs, chechens, azeris, tatars, russians:cool: (till 1943), and other non Aryans were'nt allowed to marry Aryan women.

Photo of an Armenian Legioner with his Dutch wife(Dutch weren't just Aryans for Germans, they were Germanic people...)

[armo_origin]

Hroape, why would you want to be praised JUST for your Aryan roots?

[skhara]

Osstrupen, you didn't understand what I asked I think. I asked what year the operation was planned? 1943 is what you already said -- I mean did they plan it in 1937, in 1941? When was the plan made is my question.

[Osttruppen]

Osstrupen, you didn't understand what I asked I think. I asked what year the operation was planned? 1943 is what you already said -- I mean did they plan it in 1937, in 1941? When was the plan made is my question.

I answered your question "In 1941 members of Armenian Assembly(or Union) met German Reichsminister Alfred Rosenberg, they had an agreement". Germans promised that when German forces liberate Armenia and Georgia this two nations would become independance, Armenians and Georgians had to help Germans during the war, after liberation of Armenia and Georgia with support of Germans there would be formed Armenian and Georgian Armies on the base of Armenian and Georgian Legions, and than like Rosenberg has said "Armenians will have a chance to liberate their Fatherland with the support of German Reich".

[skhara]

I answered your question "In 1941 members of Armenian Assembly(or Union) met German Reichsminister Alfred Rosenberg, they had an agreement". Germans promised that when German forces liberate Armenia and Georgia this two nations would become independance, Armenians and Georgians had to help Germans during the war, after liberation of Armenia and Georgia with support of Germans there would be formed Armenian and Georgian Armies on the base of Armenian and Georgian Legions, and than like Rosenberg has said "Armenians will have a chance to liberate their Fatherland with the support of German Reich".


First, the fact that it was in 1941 already makes me skeptical about the Greek aspect because there was already an insurgency going on against German and Italian forces.

Also, do you know what month this meeting took place? I am assuming it was before the commencement of Operatio Barberrosa, but was it before Operation Punishment?

[Osttruppen]

First, the fact that it was in 1941 already makes me skeptical about the Greek aspect because there was already an insurgency going on against German and Italian forces.

Also, do you know what month this meeting took place? I am assuming it was before the commencement of Operatio Barberrosa, but was it before Operation Punishment?


Greeks were fighting Germans, I accept, but we should mention that all that most important resistance units were comunists, and sooner or later they would be defeated by Germans if the war at Eastern Front went different. Then we should also count that Germans were not going to keep Greece occupied forever, soon there would be established a nationalist government.
Would Greeks agree to enter a war against turks if they knew Germans are going to help them, and they will have other allies too? I think yes, because till this day Greeks miss the imperial city of Constantinopole...

About month: as far as I remember meeting happened in the december of 1941, war had started and Germans had almost no problems in Eastern Front.
General Dro took part in that meeting too I think, and other members of Armenian comunity, Ardashes Abeghian, and some other people too, which names I dont remember now.

[Կարմիր Բ]

but as we know Germans failed in Stalingrad...


They didn't fail, they were gangbanged in all their holes from the glorious Red Army.

[Armenian]

They didn't fail, they were gangbanged in all their holes from the glorious Red Army.

When you grow up and decide to seriously study the various military aspects of the Second World War, you will see that in reality it was the so-called Red Army that got "gangbanged" by the German Whermacht from the opening stages of the war in 1941 even to the end in 1945.

Germany lost due to bad poilitcs, nothing else.

[Osttruppen]

They didn't fail, they were gangbanged in all their holes from the glorious Red Army.

Thank you for your wonderful contribution to my thread mr Lenin! It's really wonderfull to see that you! glorious leader of world proletariat turned your attention to us! How is tovarischch Marx? Please tell him our Greetings, and also tell our Greetings to mr generalisimo Josef Jughashvili, we Armenians still remember him with tears of love when we remember how he gave our lands as present to our beloved neighbour turks.

[Կարմիր Բ]

The NAZIS wanted to collaborate with the Turks against Armenia. Just after Stalingrad, in case the Fascists won, the Turks would have invaded Armenia in order to unify with the rest of the Turkic states, which was always their wet dream. Armenia knew that and was already making war preparations. Too bad the Turks, like the Nazis, are too cowards to invade before the battle of Stalingrad because that would give the perfect pretext for the Red Army to invade and recover Western Armenia. Just after the world war Stalin demanded Kars and the rest of the lost areas of Armenia, that was one of the reasons why Turkey joined the NATO.

To sum it up, the Nazis were the allies of the Turks and thus our enemies, they are responsible for death of 300.000 of our countrymen and I am proud that one of the first battalions that entered in Berlin was the Armenian one, dancing armenian folklore songs for our victory in Berlin, the people's victory against fascism.

Kursk, Stalingrad, Leningrad, Berlin

[Illuminator]

When you grow up and decide to seriously study the various military aspects of the Second World War, you will see that in reality it was the so-called Red Army that got "gangbanged" by the German Whermacht from the opening stages of the war in 1941 even to the end in 1945.

Germany lost due to bad poilitcs, nothing else.


That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. And a real insult to the Armenians who fought in those battles, many of which lost their lives.

As to the topic at hand, turkey spent the war playing the w.hore...trying to be sure to side with whoever would come out the winner. But turkey did help the Germans, just like they always work with the Germans. The Germans didn't care about anyone besides themselves and I doubt they were serious about any promises to anyone.

[skhara]

The Germans didn't care about anyone besides themselves and I doubt they were serious about any promises to anyone.

I would present that as a definite reality. Germans had their own interests in mind, as they should mind you. I can see them making promises to Armenians and making deals with turks at the exact same time. The third reich was nothing other than an imperialist force who just as the prior Germany, wanted their "place in the Sun".

If, in fact, the meeting took place in 1941, that throws up a major red flag for me because precisely in 1941, is when Germans would have been looking at all the manpower they could muster given that in december 1941, Operation Barberrossa, turned into a failure and a protracted war was set in motion -- one in which the German side was outmanned, outsourced, and outgunned.

[Armenian]

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

No, I am sure you have heard more ridiculous things before. :)

[Armenian]

I would present that as a definite reality. Germans had their own interests in mind, as they should mind you. I can see them making promises to Armenians and making deals with turks at the exact same time. The third reich was nothing other than an imperialist force who just as the prior Germany, wanted their "place in the Sun". If, in fact, the meeting took place in 1941, that throws up a major red flag for me because precisely in 1941, is when Germans would have been looking at all the manpower they could muster given that in december 1941, Operation Barberrossa, turned into a failure and a protracted war was set in motion -- one in which the German side was outmanned, outsourced, and outgunned.

Although I am quite sympathetic towards the Third Reich and Germans in general, I do agree with your overall assessment of the situation. Soon after the failure of "Operation Barbarossa" in late summer of 1941, Germans were essentially hard pressed for manpower and war materials. I could see them making an alliance with Turks to overcome their strategic weaknesses. A million Armenians in a tiny rocky landlocked nation would not stand a chance in hell had Turks promised Hitler unconditional support. But then again, who knows...

[skhara]

I think that our "nazis" don't have a very objective approach to real-world geo-politics. Germans have been friendly towards turks for their own interests and for their influence and access to the Middle East.

Otto von Bismark's Germany propped up turks.
Also, I'm sure that had the Soviet Army collapsed, and the allies position could be made unfavourable with the entry of turkey, they would have offered all the support to the axis in exchange for invasion of the Caucasus. Control of the caucasus has been their long-term geostrategic ambition.

Also, the Soviet Union was not the worst thing for Armenia. Did some negative cultures and mentalities creep in? YES. But it also allowed Armenians flush down the toilet some of the worst of those influences -- turkic/oriental ones. Having some russified influence is much better than alien, oriental, "middle eastern", "asian", mentalities, cultures, and behaviors.

The Soviet Union fell to suddenly and to quickly creating too stressful of situations -- thanks to masonic juden like Gorby and his wife.

[Armenian]

I think that our "nazis" don't have a very objective approach to real-world geo-politics. Germans have been friendly towards turks for their own interests and for their influence and access to the Middle East.

Otto von Bismark's Germany propped up turks. Also, I'm sure that had the Soviet Army collapsed, and the allies position could be made unfavourable with the entry of turkey, they would have offered all the support to the axis in exchange for invasion of the Caucasus. Control of the caucasus has been their long-term geostrategic ambition.

Also, the Soviet Union was not the worst thing for Armenia. Did some negative cultures and mentalities creep in? YES. But it also allowed Armenians flush down the toilet some of the worst of those influences -- turkic/oriental ones. Having some russified influence is much better than alien, oriental, "middle eastern", "asian", mentalities, cultures, and behaviors.

The Soviet Union fell to suddenly and to quickly creating too stressful of situations -- thanks to masonic juden like Gorby and his wife.

I'm in full agreement. And I am quite impressed by you enker Skhara :)

[Osttruppen]

I wont post in this thread anymore...

[Armenian]

I wont post in this thread anymore...

Yeritasard @nker, ays hartsi handeb mikich shat @zkatsmunkov es verabervum, petk@ chi ayd pes lines. @ntamene 'gnargumenk' ays hartse. Aravel, ays hartsi nman nyuteri metch 'jisht' kam 'skhal' ch'ka, miyayn yerevakayutyunner yev yendadrumner.

Sakayn, yete aveli khosker kam aracharkner unes aselu, ch'kashves. Menk kes lsumenk, iharke da chi nshanakum vor ameninchi het hamatsayn linelu enk.

[Aryan_Hye]

I wont post in this thread anymore...


your wasting your time brother.
i see turkic originated tatarian comunist lovers here.who are glad that
nazis lost and.....
they dont deserve to know the facts.
they dont deserve to know the gloury and honour that hitler
and german armenologists have blessed to armenians.
if nazis won such so called armenian scums wouldnt be here and post.


leave them.
they are ignorant people
and trolls of worst quality.

[gmd]

your wasting your time brother.
i see turkic originated tatarian comunist lovers here.who are glad that
nazis lost and.....
they dont deserve to know the facts.
they dont deserve to know the gloury and honour that hitler
and german armenologists have blessed to armenians.
if nazis won such so called armenian scums wouldnt be here and post.


leave them.
they are ignorant people
and trolls of worst quality.

snort, snort. i'll have you know i am of the best quality of troll!

[Aryan_Hye]

The NAZIS wanted to collaborate with the Turks against Armenia. Just after Stalingrad, in case the Fascists won, the Turks would have invaded Armenia in order to unify with the rest of the Turkic states, which was always their wet dream.
Kursk, Stalingrad, Leningrad, Berlin

bla bla bla bla.
do you know that turks wanted to mass kill armenians like ww1
and hitler didnt let them cause of our aryan roots ?
http://www.usanogh.com/content/view/183/93/

while your beloved communist comrades were sitting
and watching the armenian genocide in baku in 1988 or 1989
i dont remember exactly.
my armenian teacher is hayasdantsi.
she told us that your drunk communist leader were laughing
when russian soldiers reported them about armenian genocide in baku.

we lost most of our armenian territories cause of ur communist
turkic originated fuhrer (stalin)
and we paid the price till we have back some of our lost lands (karabakh)
and were paying the price till now.

you are not armenian.
you are not noble aryan.
i dont see any armenian charectristics in you.
it is communist armenians like you who spit west armenians (arevmedahays)
and call us (garbage) and say that their glad that the turks killed
west armenians.
i know bunch of them in armenia.

[dani87]

mr nazi stalin was laz...laz is not a turkic people...the only one who would claim such bullXXXX is either a turk or just stupid

[dani87]

have to edit my claim.....stalin wasn't laz he was something else whith some kind of georgian relation like the laz people who now live in northeastern turkey.....

[skhara]

have to edit my claim.....stalin wasn't laz he was something else whith some kind of georgian relation like the laz people who now live in northeastern turkey.....

I read he was partly Ossetian.

[ArmenianKid]

I read he was partly Ossetian.

ive read his biography for a history class. It also said he was part Ossetian.

[ArmenianKid]

When you grow up and decide to seriously study the various military aspects of the Second World War, you will see that in reality it was the so-called Red Army that got "gangbanged" by the German Whermacht from the opening stages of the war in 1941 even to the end in 1945.

Germany lost due to bad poilitcs, nothing else.


Also a string of defeats in the western front. No oil, steel, or iron for the weapons they were trying to build. The weapons they did get out to the field were very flawed (read into the king tiger).

The germans were a powerful force but when the US, Britian, USSR plus the number of anti-german insurgencys going on, good politics or not. They were screwed.

[Armenian]

Also a string of defeats in the western front. No oil, steel, or iron for the weapons they were trying to build. The weapons they did get out to the field were very flawed (read into the king tiger). The germans were a powerful force but when the US, Britian, USSR plus the number of anti-german insurgencys going on, good politics or not. They were screwed.

Well, let's not kid ourselves, Germans could have easily defeated the combined forces of America, England and Russia had they been a little more careful of their 'geopolitical' formulation.

The Third Reich 'greatest' mistake was looking upon the Slavic populations of the Soviet Union as subhuman and thus mistreating them. Had Germans treated the Slavs with dignity and respect, I think we all would be speaking German right now.

Militarily, Germans never took the forces of England and America seriously, because American and English combat forces were terribly ineffective throughout the war. Germans lost North Africa, southern Italy and the Normandy coast, due to the choronic shortage of troops, natural resources and the massive 'biblical' intensitiy of the conflict on Eastern front. When the Allies landed on the Normandy coast, Germans had a tiny force to meet them. Germans always had a tiny forces against the Americans and the English throughout the war, and they still managed to bring havoc upon Allied forces.

Man for man, platoon for platoon, regiment for regiment, division for division, Allied troops were pathetic against German soldiers. My deepest respect for the German Front Soldaten, Submarine crews, Panzer crews, and Luftwaffe pilots, perhaps the finest in modern history. As such, my deepest respect for German officers of the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht: Manstein, Rommel, Model, Kesselring, Guderian, Kleist, etc.

Let's not foget who writes history (Jooz :laugh:). Who says German soldiers didn't cry for their mothers: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5733476513427137934&q=mutter+rammstein&hl=en

[skhara]

Well, let's not kid ourselves, Germans could have easily defeated the combined forces of America, England and Russia had they been a little more careful of their 'geopolitical' formulation.


You kind of contradict yourself in your explanations to that comment. You explained why they didn't.

Hitler screwed up majorly in attacking the SU when and how he did.

I've heard now, oh but he didn't Stalin would have attacked. My question is, "so what"? How would Stalin ever had broke through healthy German lines?

My grandfather I think had his most traumatizing experience in Finland, not even when the war with Germans started -- the Finns absolutely decimated the first wave of the invasion force.

[Armenian]

You kind of contradict yourself in your explanations to that comment. You explained why they didn't.

You kind of not reading what I wrote, Skhara.

Germans were superior 'tactically' to any of the Allied forces, even when they were combined. Obviously, Hitler, along with several other party operatives in the Third Reich, made some grave strategic mistakes. Thus, Germans lost the war 'not' due to their inability to sucessfully perform large scale military operation, but because of the bad decision making. Having said that, I must point out that today there are historians who think that Hitler had no choice but to attack the Soviet Union. You must understand that durign the 30s Western Europe was very scared and paranoid of a potential Soviet thrust westward.

Nonetheless, even with the Germans prempting the Soviets, the Germans would have won on the eastern front had they attempted to 'embrace' the Slavic population there instead of oppressing them.

[skhara]

Nonetheless, even with the Germans prempting the Soviets, the Germans would have won on the eastern front had they attempted to 'embrace' the Slavic population there instead of oppressing them.

Possibly. But as they say, its all history. We don't really know. Poland was definitely an enemy of the Reich. Ukrainians at first welcomed the German troops. Russians always resisted. Anyway, they should have properly played the Ukes, Poles, and Russians off against each other. There was plenty of historic hatereds, animosity, chauvanism, etc..., to have acheived it. Instead they just treated them all like crap where they united against a greater 'evil'.

[skhara]

I think under the circumstances, I would have concentrated on suffocating Britain.

Continue with relentless bombardment of the military industrial complex
focus the forces on Gibraltar and the Suez. Geograpy and numbers are in German favour. Then, move in on Cyprus, and have the Meditrranean wrapped up cutting Britain from her colonies and increasing oil supply. A war of attricion would not be in Britains favour. If Germans put some effort into the navy, they could have surpassed the Brits. I think the Soviet Union could have been discouraged from attacking through the tactical supperiority of the German forces. Especially if they set themselves up in a defensive perimeter.

[Vagharshapat]

Germany was the natural and historic allies of Turkey. Hitler was an admirer of Ataturk. He was taking the Armenian Genocide as a pattern for the Jevish genocide. He sent a German troop for Ataturk's funeral. I have the photos of German soldiers marching in Ataturk's funeral. Hitler had invited Turkey to enter the war on their side, but prime minister Inonu had refused it.

In the wartime Turkish people were mainly supporting Germany because they were fighting against the communist Russia. At that time the biggest threat for Turkey was communism and Stalin.

But infact Turkey was acting political and calculating the outcomes. They were playing both sides. In fact their policy was "dog eat dog, let's not bother." But it may be possible that Hitler had then planned to invade Turkey after the decline of his proposal to Turkey because I know that there were defensive preparations in Thracia for this invasion, you can still see the machine gun trenchs which were prepared at that time.

There is a saying in Turkey; "The man who falls into the sea can even grab a snake to save himself." That is what some Armenians do. It is odd to hope for the help of a fascist criminal like Hitler. I am glad he wasn't successful. If he was, then the world would be literally a hell now.

Armenians' mistake has been to trust some imperialist forces to save themselves. It has always resulted with frustration. The French let them down, the Russians let them down, the Americans let them down. Probably the germans would do the same thing. You must understand this; the imperialist countries always pursue their interests, they don't care about others. So you have to be strong...

[Gazan]

Armenians have absolutely no business with the neo-nazis.

I'm disgusted with those Armenians who go to sites like stormfront and lick the neo-nazis' arses.

Wake-up to yourselfs and at least have some dignity. And if you are really as tough and commited as you say you are then join a REAL Armenian organisation that is dedicated to serve our people and punish the low-life turks.

[TomServo]

Armenians have absolutely no business with the neo-nazis.

I'm disgusted with those Armenians who go to sites like stormfront and lick the neo-nazis' arses.

Wake-up to yourselfs and at least have some dignity. And if you are really as tough and commited as you say you are then join a REAL Armenian organisation that is dedicated to serve our people and punish the low-life turks.
You championed [Armenian] communism in one thread and called for the execution of all Turks in another. Now you express your hatred for Neo Nazis. Are you a communist or a national socialist then?

[Gazan]

You championed [Armenian] communism in one thread and called for the execution of all Turks in another. Now you express your hatred for Neo Nazis. Are you a communist or a national socialist then?

Let's get things straight.

I have a deep respect for those Armenians (who happened to be communists since that was the only way to get anywhere) under whos leadership the Armenia we all know was created.

I have always called for the destruction of turkey and murder of turks. And I will always continue to do so and most importantly I will work towards achieving these goals.

I don't hate neo-nazis because they are an absolute useless movement which does not hold and never will hold any power anywhere in the world. The real nazis of the third reich had a chance but they stuffed it up big time and are gone forever into the anals of history. Right now any Armenian talking to them is wasting his time and should ditch them. As for those Armenians who consider themselfs neo-nazis then they are simply idiots, who better wake-up to themselfs.

I'm an Armenian Nationalist.

[Armenian]

Let's get things straight.

I have a deep respect for those Armenians (who happened to be communists since that was the only way to get anywhere) under whos leadership the Armenia we all know was created.

I have always called for the destruction of turkey and murder of turks. And I will always continue to do so and most importantly I will work towards achieving these goals.

I don't hate neo-nazis because they are an absolute useless movement which does not hold and never will hold any power anywhere in the world. The real nazis of the third reich had a chance but they stuffed it up big time and are gone forever into the anals of history. Right now any Armenian talking to them is wasting his time and should ditch them. As for those Armenians who consider themselfs neo-nazis then they are simply idiots, who better wake-up to themselfs.

I'm an Armenian Nationalist.

I'm impressed, Gazan jan.

[Orlandu]

I have always called for the destruction of turkey and murder of turks. And I will always continue to do so and most importantly I will work towards achieving these goals.
.
What kind of things will you do to achieve your goals?I mean;what do you suggest doing for utter destruction of Turks,sub-humans

[makunts]

hitler never thought of such thing
but in world war one kaisers germany did help plan the genocide
its a historical fact
go to genocideevents.com and click "germany and the secret genocide'
in the pop up video

[makunts]

neo nazis are needed when the country's national identity is suffering
because of vast immigration
we dont have that problem
armenia is 95% armenian
neo nazism in armenia serves no purpose
on the other hand nationalizm does we need that

[Dyutazn]

Plan GERTRUD

German plan invading Turks in 1943 called " GERTRUD "

Members of Armenian-German Union and Georgian-German union met Alfred Rosenberg in 1941, and he had promised them "when Armenia and Georgia are free from bolshevik rule, with German support Armenian and Georgian Armies will start a Holy war against Turkey, from Europe Wehrmacht, SS, Bulgarian, and Greek divisions will attack Turkey too". And I really believe this, because during WWII Reich wasn't ally of Turkey, and there is the name of operation which can be checked.

Immediately after liberation, Armenia would become ally of Germany. This agreement was approved personally by Adolf Hitler. In 1942, the Führer signed the order about the creation of four Caucasian legions. Adolf Hitler declared that these legions were to be the nucleus of the military forces of the future independent Caucasian nations.

Hitler had a racially bigoted outlook about the employment of Slavic peoples fighting alongside Germany, but he didn't object to suggestions by members of Wehrmacht and the Ministry for Occupied Eastern Territories to the creation of combat units made up of Caucasian volunteers. Alfred Rosenberg, the Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories, approved and warmly received the news of Hitler's decision regarding the Caucasian peoples.

The long yearning of the Armenian people for independence was addressed by the establishment of the Free Caucasus Movement, which had been personally suggested and approved by Adolf Hitler.

According to Russian archives and reports from investigating commissions, the various members from the National Governments from Armenia and Georgia had declared that after the proclamation of the creation of these free republics, the Armenians and Georgians had to be 'prepared for victory and a holy war against further oppressors from Turkey.'

Troops from Europe, which were supposed to included Greek, Wehrmacht and Waffen SS troops, were earmarked to help Armenian and Georgian units to invade Turkey. At the appropriate time, Armenia and Georgia were required to provide the German military command with about 100,000 soldiers with which to invade Turkey. A plan had been discussed for the occupation of Turkey where that country was supposed to be divided into Armenian (our historical lands,maybe even more),Greek,and thenGeorgian. Bulgarian, Italian and special Greek forces were to occupy Izmir and its suburbs. The occupation plan for Turkey, began forming in the beginning of the summer of 1942 under the secret code-name Gertrud.

According to the documents found in the Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, Nazi leaders knew very well that sooner or later Pan-Turkism would be a danger to Germany if they allowed Turkey and Azerbaijan to join together.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8528/pic2turanmapkt5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This danger of Turkic and Azerbaijani collaboration under a 'Great Turan' in Ankara was actually a perceived threat among Nazi leaders in 1942 and 1943. The idea of Greater Armenia and its realization was a counter-balance to Turkish desires in the Caucasus.

A map, indicating the planned Reich Kommissariat Armenien developed by Alfred Rosenberg, was discovered among the many top-secret documents found by SMERSH at the end of the war.

Forgotten Legion: Sonderverbände Bergmann in World War II, 1941-1945. Eduard Abramian (ed. Antonio J. Munoz), Europa Books, 2007, pp. 9 -13.

The Turkish government of that time took an opportunity to launch a major propaganda campaign against the Armenians living in Germany and the rest of Europe, where they claimed that Armenians were Semite and no different from gypsies. They encouraged the persecution of Armenians by planting falsified information on Armenian history, culture and its origins.

To counter the anti-Armenian propaganda in Germany, the Armenian community in Potsdam,Germany published an academic book on Armenian studies called Armeniertum-Arivertum,meaning Armenism-Aryanism. Three thousand copies were printed under the leadership of Artashes Abeghyan in cooperation with German Armenologists Yohannes Lepsus and Paul Rohrbakh.

[KarotheGreat]

he only had plans to invade Turkey but he never did when he had the chance. Instead he invaded the SU, and that was his biggest mistake.

Before he had invaded the SU, his generals were trying to convince him to attack turkey and move towards the Suez canal. And control of the ME would be his and he could than attack SU from two fronts. That was the only way he could have helped Armenia.

And he also made plans with Turkey so they could invade the Caucasus. And he would need a second front for the Soviets in the Caucasus if he wanted to win the war.

And it doesn't matter what his plans were, he lost the war. None of his plans matter because he is the loser in all of this. He made Germany great but destroyed it with his stupidity.

[Dyutazn]

Battalion “Zeytun” of the German Army
http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyuter/HISTORY/ARMENIA20/Battalion_Zaytun_of_the_German_Army.htm