Vartan Mamikonian was Chinese ??

[imhye]

I was reading about Saint Vartan Mamikonian and it mentioned that the Mamikonian family were actually descendants of Chinese emperors of the Han Dynasty.

Is that true?

Vartan Mamikonian's family was Chinese? I am shocked and confused. :confused:

[crusader1492]

I was reading about Saint Vartan Mamikonian and it mentioned that the Mamikonian family were actually descendants of Chinese emperors of the Han Dynasty.


Is that true?

Vartan Mamikonian's family was Chinese? I am shocked and confused. :confused:

In the painting of him at my church, he looks like a white guy.

BTW, I heard Jesus was a black guy and Santa Claus was and aboriginal. Is this true?

[One-Way]

I was watching TV, and I think it was CNN, and they mentioned a movie about Jesus, who was being portrayed by a black actor. Wow, that movie should be destroyed immediately.

[TomServo]

"Although the family later claimed descent from Chinese emperors of Han dynasty, the first known Mamikonid lord, or nakhararq, about whom anything certain is known was a certain Vatche Mamikonian (fl. 330-339)."

[TomServo]

More here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vartan_Mamikonian). Interesting.

[Ari]

with a name like Vartan i dont care if his full black his armo and the family who called him vartan is armo too ;P

[Armenian]

Vardan Mamikonian was not a Chinese, nor was his ancestry, stop acting stupid ya'all.

[imhye]

Here are two interesting posts I found in old newsgroup archives back in 2001.


When the Shu dynasty fell (I will get the exact era for you) in China, a general by the name of Mamgo (which I beleive means the Prince in their dialect) fled along with his army and their families. They first fled to Persia, and upon further threats by the Chinese emperor, their enemy, the Persian king sent them to Armenia, claiming that he had sent them to 'certain death in the desert'.

I dont know where this story originally comes from, but I came accross it in Harpers Encyclopedea of Military History.

Chinese scholars, I've been told, maintain that Armenians and Chinese share certain genetic links. I dont know if that is a result of Mongolian invasion, etc. or if there is any connection at all between Mamikonian and Mamgo?




The local origin of the Mamigonian clan seems to be the lower slopes of the Kachkar mountains towards the Voh river. This area is part of the outer fringes of northern Greater Armenia. The Mamigonians were members of the Tzan people. They inherited through marriage large tracts of land in the central highlands of Western Armenia. To rebuff typical snubbing by the native Armenian aristocracy for having the good fortune of marrying well, the Mamigonians came up with the idea (give a boost to their pedigree) of originating from China since the name of their people, Tzan, resembles the name Han (meaning Chinese).Many Armenian noble families had Urartian backgrounds and lucky upstarts like the Mamigonians were looked down upon.



To me, this subject is VERY INTERESTING. I wonder why this has never been researched by historians. I think I may look up Chinese history sites when I get the chance to see any mention of this.

[One-Way]

stop acting stupid ya'all.

If I was to say that...

[Anonymouse]

I have heard of this claim advanced before but to my knowledge there has been no evidence to suggest that it's true.

[TomServo]

I have heard of this claim advanced before but to my knowledge there has been no evidence to suggest that it's true.
You thai now, dum gai.

[Ari]

this is like saying princess diana was armo lol

[TurkishPride]

In the painting of him at my church, he looks like a white guy.

BTW, I heard Jesus was a black guy and Santa Claus was and aboriginal. Is this true?
Crusader, listen dude i don't like your name, crsade is sin even in bible, Allah have puneshed them, they will go to hell when recurrection comes, so are the Turkish invader when they have killed about a millions of Armenian, women and childeren revenge not needed but the hatrate should always stay in u know they are not friends...

[crusader1492]

Crusader, listen dude i don't like your name, crsade is sin even in bible, Allah have puneshed them, they will go to hell when recurrection comes, so are the Turkish invader when they have killed about a millions of Armenian, women and childeren revenge not needed but the hatrate should always stay in u know they are not friends...

Jumbo Shrimp, Government Organization, Alone Together, Silent Scream, Living Dead, Same Difference, Taped Live, Plastic Glasses, Tight Slacks, Peace Force, TURKISH PRIDE, Pretty Ugly, Head Butt, Working Vacation, Tax Return....

[Quarteria]

Santa Clause, St. Nick...you seriously don't know about him?

[The Abyss]

there is a rummor that Mao Tse-tung's mother was Armenian....

[jgk3]

heh, there's also rumors that Columbus was from Georgia, but that's only due to the uneducated state of those who started the rumors.

[TomServo]

I heard they were all Yahudis.

[jgk3]

me too.

[infozeit]

there is a rumor that Mao Tse-tung's mother was Armenian....
perhaps , but this is nothing to do with the question -- was Vartan Mamikonian a chinese or not ? the answer is " no " , because Vartan Manikonia lived in 4 century . but it's said the first man in this familie called "Vatche Mamikonian" , he came to Armenian in 3 century(330 A.D.s) . perhaps he was a chinese .

[bell-the-cat]

There are (I think) three pointless (I think!) subjects that are always on Armenian message boards: "female virginity before marriage", "Armenian women and black men", and "was Vartan Mamikonian Chinese?". The threads eventually die, but they are always either resurrected or a new thread with the same subject appears.
The "Armenian women and black men" thread is overdue its inevitable reappearance. :)

[The Abyss]

There are (I think) three pointless (I think!) subjects that are always on Armenian message boards: "female virginity before marriage", "Armenian women and black men", and "was Vartan Mamikonian Chinese?". The threads eventually die, but they are always either resurrected or a new thread with the same subject appears.
The "Armenian women and black men" thread is overdue its inevitable reappearance. :)

So what do you think about Armenian women and black men :D

[bell-the-cat]

So what do you think about Armenian women and black men :D
I have no opinion on it. :p

[Aramis63]

I agree with the first version....prince Ma Mgun was a threat to the Chinese Emperor...and China had very good relation with Armenia....the empreror sent a letter to Trdat I and sent Ma Mgun to Armenian and our king put him in Daron.

Anyway...whats wrong if we had great generals' family whose ancestral ties come from China?...lets not forget...our army got the best knowledge and trainings and military startegy when Mamikonian family became the generals of our powerful army and made the army more powerful.

Lets not forget that Mamikonian family brought with them their knowledge too and passed it in the family from father to son....I thank that Chinese emperor that sent general Ma Mgun to Armenia.

Let me give an example...we all know that during Avarayr battle...although Vartan Mamikonian died, but our army defeated the Persian elite "Madyan Kount"...and I myself saw some of their trainings, now they call it Zarkhana...and its tough training and we beat them.

[HyeWayCop]

Crusader1492 your comments about Jesus are not funny there immature. I mean if your trying to be funny you failed horribly.

[ZoRRo]

with a name like Vartan i dont care if his full black his armo and the family who called him vartan is armo too ;P

lol with a NAME like that ?
more like with a nose like that.. he's sure to be armo

[Demon Fox]

You just gotta look for that nose-eyebrow combination. Don't forget the hairy arms xD. There's no way he was Chinese, though.

[Sip]

"Hitlern el a hye ... kam el -hye hitler"

[Vagharshapat]

There are some rumours that Mamikonian was from Asian origin he could be Turcic. By that time there were some non-muslim proto-Turk tribes still coming to Anatolia, these were like Scythians, sakas, Kipchaks, Kimmerians, Kumans, Oguzes and Alpans according to Turkologists. And because that they were non-muslims they were assimilated in the Armenian community and mamikonians were one of them.

[Armenian]

There are some rumours that Mamikonian was from Asian origin he could be Turcic. By that time there were some non-muslim proto-Turk tribes still coming to Anatolia, these were like Scythians, sakas, Kipchaks, Kimmerians, Kumans, Oguzes and Alpans according to Turkologists. And because that they were non-muslims they were assimilated in the Armenian community and mamikonians were one of them.

Nice try Turkoglu :laugh:

[Vagharshapat]

Hi Armenian I am not trying anything. I heard about Mamikonian in Turkey like that. Yes it seems to me now like a bad propoganda and ridiculous. Because it seems like that they are trying to possess one of Armenians' greatest heroes. I was a little naive to comment on Vartan, I shouldnt have done that. I am sorry if I offended you, I had no bad intention like the other Turkish guys. But it doesnt seem impossible to me that some proto-Turk tribes were assimilated in Armenia before Islam. Because they were like any other barbaric tribes and when they met a civilized culture it is normal to be assimilated and become christians.

[Aryan_Hye]

. I heard about Mamikonian in Turkey like that. .

they are brainwashing you.
and letting you to believe that all good ppl that u had in ur history
had turkic blood.or ........bla bla bla.

though that its the opposite.
most of the famous ppl of turkey have armenian grandmothers that got
raped in ww1.

[garrgarr]

this is like saying princess diana was armo lol
I've actually seen it somewhere saying that princess diana was 1/64th armenian LOL. not that its a significant amount or anything. just thought i could share :rolleyes:

.. many sources say it. like this one
http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Famous_Armenians

and im pretty sure there must have been a thread on this at one point in time haha

[sloanie08]

Is there armenian with no other blood? There is no real armenian in the world. Stop talking about China.:wave:

[OneHyEdude]

I was reading about Saint Vartan Mamikonian and it mentioned that the Mamikonian family were actually descendants of Chinese emperors of the Han Dynasty.

Is that true?

Vartan Mamikonian's family was Chinese? I am shocked and confused. :confused:
No one knows what he really is. Its an unsolved mystery.

[harry4657]

Here are two interesting posts I found in old newsgroup archives back in 2001.

To me, this subject is VERY INTERESTING. I wonder why this has never been researched by historians. I think I may look up Chinese history sites when I get the chance to see any mention of this.

as im a chinese, and look over 5000 years textbook....:(
it is possible that Mamigonian is a chinese, but not the chinese all of you usually thought of, he is a mixed blood of han(most common seen chinese today) and ethnic group located in southern part of china. which they have good relation with western countries. its possible that his offspring went to Persia for protection after their empire Shu fell apart, family been killed and the china's emperor still searching for relatives of any previous dynasty. But in reality, theres no evidence to prove his offspring is Mamigonian at all. it just a guess.:D
also theres a lot of chinese traders on Silk Road over Armenia and Persia, there must be one of them have the same last name, its even higher chance to have a trader than a general

[Surrender]

So what do you think about Armenian women and black men :D
Very very bad match.Ehhhhhhh, black man?

[Surrender]

Is there armenian with no other blood? There is no real armenian in the world. Stop talking about China.:wave:

Sloanie 08 I am supporting your idea.May be next month they will say he was Japanese.:crying:

[Surrender]

There is something true that there are Armenian population in China,in Hog Kong,in India and in Malaysia.

[Sean]

In the painting of him at my church, he looks like a white guy.

BTW, I heard Jesus was a black guy and Santa Claus was and aboriginal. Is this true?
jesus was armenian looking

[MrLeftyHye]

I was reading about Saint Vartan Mamikonian and it mentioned that the Mamikonian family were actually descendants of Chinese emperors of the Han Dynasty.

Is that true?

Vartan Mamikonian's family was Chinese? I am shocked and confused. :confused:
Eventhough this thread is old I am just as amazaed & shocked as imhye... I doubt that Vartan Mamikonian was Chinese. :confused:

[TomServo]

Va Tan Ma Mi Kon Yan.

[MrLeftyHye]

Va Tan Ma Mi Kon Yan.
Hajima!

[Jinx]

I like chop-sticks

[MrLeftyHye]

Chop - Sticks are very hard to eat with.

[Jinx]

Not for me. It's cause I'm chinese like Vartan.

[MrLeftyHye]

Stop that LOL.
In the words you would understand...HAJIMA.

[Vagharshapat]

I have searched a while and I encountered something interesting. This source was suggesting that there was a misinterpretion about Mamikonians being Chinese. Infact they were Tzanics. Tzans were one of Pontos tribes. They were living in the region of Tayk. These Tzans were also referred as Chans. These Chans were confused with Chinese by some historians because of the similarity of the names. The Mamikonians could be members of Tzans.

It is supposed that Mamikonians came to Armenia in the 3rd century but this can't be true. Because one of the first members of the Mamikonian house; Mancaeus had fought against the Romans to defend Tigranakerta in 69BC.
Mamik and Konak were said to be sons of Chenbakur. Infact it was not a name but a title. 'Chen' must be Chan(Tzan). And according to Moses Khorenatsi, 'Bakur' was 'Bag-Puhr' meaning 'son of heavens' in Iranian language family. Tzanica kings had this title.

Mamik and Konak were exiled to Dersim region by the Parths. Today the people of Dersim also call the region Mamekiye(Mamakan). Even tough today's Kurds consider Dersimis Kurdish, Dersimis don't consider themselves Kurdish. They consider themselves Kirmanchi. And they are not muslims, they are called Kizilbash. Kizilbash belief is based on Zoroastrianism.

In the time of the genocide when the Kurds were murdering the Armenians, the Dersimis helped the Armenians and protected them. Like 30,000 Armenians took refuge in Dersim region. Today there are lots of crypto-Armenians in Dersim. Maybe these are all related, I don't know if it is true but I found it interesting...

[Sip]

Very interesting stuff Vagharshapat.

[ARK]

Thanks Vagharshapat. It was so interesting.

[Vagharshapat]

You are welcome...

This one is from wikipedia;

"Today, some historians are of the opinion that the Mamikonians were probably descended from chieftans of the Tzans (Chanik - Ճանիք/Ճենիք - in medieval Armenian, Tzannoi in medieval Greek). The Tzans[3] were a tribe that once inhabited a mountainous region to the south of Trebizond. They postulate that the tradition of the Chinese origin arose out of the similarity of the name Chanik to the Armenian word for China, Chen-k."

[Thai-Samurai]

I wish Vartan Mamikonian was chinese.

[MrLeftyHye]

I wish Vartan Mamikonian was chinese.

Why do you wish that he was Chinese?

[TomServo]

He has Yellow Fever (an Asian fetish).

[Thai-Samurai]

no, just imagine how cool it would be.

[MrLeftyHye]

no, just imagine how cool it would be.

Wouldnt it be cool if we were all Chinese. What if we all looked like this:



http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m288/BigYeghpayr/ChineseManWithBeard.jpg

[IAY]

Wouldnt it be cool if we were all Chinese. What if we all looked like this:



http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m288/BigYeghpayr/ChineseManWithBeard.jpg

HEY... Google 'chinese man with beard' GET THE SAME

...not that creative.... :) :)

[MrLeftyHye]

HEY... Google 'chinese man with beard' GET THE SAME

...not that creative.... :) :)

Who said I was trying to be creative LOL. I just put up a random pic.

[Lion1700]

I was reading about Saint Vartan Mamikonian and it mentioned that the Mamikonian family were actually descendants of Chinese emperors of the Han Dynasty.

Is that true?

Vartan Mamikonian's family was Chinese? I am shocked and confused. :confused:

Եթե հնարավոր է խոսել հայերեն…

Վարդան Մամիկոնյան ամենևին էլ չինացի չէ: Այդ սխալ կարծիքը առաջ է եկել աղբյուրներում հիշատակվող “Ճեն” բառը որպես “Չին” սխալ մեկնաբանելուց…

Մանրամասներն ու հիմնավորումները, եթե կհեըաքրքրի - հետո

[ArmSurvival]

I have heard the Chinese theory, I don't think its very credible. Its based too much on vague word associations, which is not an accurate way of going about this business. If you play enough with words, you can probably link South Africans to ancient Sumerian tribes.

I have heard that the Mamikonian house had Parthian origins (like Gregory the Illuminator). It is also possible he was from Pontus, seeing as its right next door to Armenia.

[Էլիա]

I have heard the Chinese theory, I don't think its very credible. Its based too much on vague word associations, which is not an accurate way of going about this business. If you play enough with words, you can probably link South Africans to ancient Sumerian tribes.

I have heard that the Mamikonian house had Parthian origins (like Gregory the Illuminator). It is also possible he was from Pontus, seeing as its right next door to Armenia.
Pontus or not, there is absolutely no way Vartan Mamigonian is Chinese! :eek: He doesn't even look like it.

[Lion1700]

There is not word "Pontos" - it is not right. All lands south Black Sea to abou Samsun are THE LANDS OF LITTLI HAJQ... As a result - Vardan was from Little Hajq.

[Էլիա]

There is not word "Pontos" - it is not right. All lands south Black Sea to abou Samsun are THE LANDS OF LITTLI HAJQ... As a result - Vardan was from Little Hajq.
What is abou Samsun? :confused:

[karoaper]

What is about Samsun? :confused:

;qrjgnb.nb';gjw'egt'ewlrgjm..b,bns.;eljn.wt.e,rntx cvb

[Էլիա]

Կարօ, դուն կը սիրե՞ս մարդոց շփոթել: :d

[karoaper]

Կարօ, դուն կը սիրե՞ս մարդոց շփոթել: :d


Mikitch aziz (aysinkn jahel eghpairs). Baic miain en jamanak vor tramadrutiuns lav a. Baic kez gakhtnik tam, mardkanc shpotum em vorovhetev yes inks em shpotvats. Te che yes shat bari anmegh tgha em.

[Lion1700]

What is abou Samsun? :confused:


Էլիա ջան, Սևծովյա ողջ ափւ, միչև Իրիս գետը ծովը թափվելու վայրը, Հայաստան է...