*urks, Faithful To Their Traditions, Continue To Loot Armenia

[Siamanto]

[The following is automatically translated using SYSTRAN.]

A Turkish student, arrested at the airport "Zvartnots" of Erévan in possession of rare works of which some dated from the XVIIe century

INHERITANCE, Sunday June 19 2005-Armenews- on June 17, the services of safety of the international airport "Zvartnots" of Erévan stopped a Turkish citizen who was on the point of flying away for Istanbul. The Armenian police force had discovered in the luggage of Ertogan Turkyilmaz, studying at the university "Duke" of South Carolina (the United States) a certain number of works literary, religious, cultural, political and scientists of XVIIe at the XXe century, who are for the Armenian authorities of the "major elements of the Armenian inheritance". The Armenian police force opened an investigation against what it regards as a diversion of the treasures of the inheritance of Arménie. Krikor Amirzayan


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk" or "*urkish" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!


http://www.armenews.com/New/news.asp?id_news=8130

Un étudiant turc, arrêté à l’aéroport « Zvartnots » d’Erévan en possession d’ouvrages rares dont certains dataient du XVIIe siècle

PATRIMOINE, dimanche 19 juin 2005-Armenews- Le 17 juin, les services de sécurité de l’aéroport international « Zvartnots » d’Erévan ont arrêté un citoyen turc qui s’apprêtait à s’envoler pour Istanbul. La police arménienne avait découvert dans les bagages d’Ertogan Turkyilmaz, étudiant à l’université « Duke » de Caroline du Sud (Etats-Unis) un certain nombre d’œuvres littéraires, religieuses, culturelles, politiques et scientifiques du XVIIe au XXe siècle, qui sont pour les autorités arméniennes des « éléments importants du patrimoine arménien ». La police arménienne a ouvert une enquête contre ce qu’elle considère comme un détournement des trésors du patrimoine de l’Arménie. Krikor Amirzayan

[Thai-Samurai]

lol what an idiot. You can't steal rare Armenian stuff.

[winoman]

Well obviously some Armenians were more then happy to sell it to him. Did you know that this guy was the first Turk who has been working in the Armenian Archives? (as he can speak and of course more importantly read Armenian). I have read some of his graduate papers (exerpts) and such and he seems fairly enlightened and open minded however I am still suspicious of his motivations though I am certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and still am even with this incident. He may not have understood these works to be export restricted. So don't jump to conclusions - lets see how it plays out.

[bell-the-cat]

Armenia seems to be becoming a more and more pathetic country as each day passes. :(

What other county in the world would arrest someone for trying to export printed books which, by their definition, are mass-produced objects. It is obvious that it was just because he was Turkish, and not because of the actual books.

And almost none of those books will have originated in Armenia! Yerevan was a mostly a mud village full of illiterate peasants until last century. Most Armenian books were printed in Constantinople, in Venice, or in Tiflis. So, ironically, he should have stayed on his home ground and gone to Istanbul to get them. During the 1970s and 80s, when Armenians were leaving in their thousands to America or Europe, countless old Armenian books were just thrown away or burned: they could be read only by Armenians and to all Armenians they were worthless. But there should still be some to be found in second-hand bookshops and fleamarkets in Istanbul.

As for Armenia, there is little point in restricting the export of books when the number of public libraries there has been decimated, and the rest have been left to rot.

[bell-the-cat]

I wonder what happened to Pars Tuglaci's library?

[nairi]

No comment, as I have no idea what or how unique these books were. The question is, did he steal the books, or did someone give him permission to take them. If the latter, then he is not to blame, but whoever gave him permission, probably an ignorant Armenian.

Steve, have you ever heard of the Matenadaran? Yes, Armenians have ignored and continue to ignore some of their greatest authors. The reasons for this are plenty. During the Soviet era they had no choice but to censor or rat on opposing authors. Nowadays, they censor pro-Soviet works as they're trying to move on. I don't think this will last forever. There are still plenty of Armenians who do care about their literary heritage will do everything to keep these works in a safe place until the climate is right to have them mass-published for a larger audience.

As for libraries, if public libraries have decimated in the last decade because of the economic crash, most Armenians still have a private library in their own homes. The books in these are not few.

If books were burned in the early nineties during the hunger winters, it's because there was no other fuel for fire. Armenians didn't enjoy burning these books, but they had little choice after sawing down every tree and pulling out every bench in parks.

I don't know what (all) Armenians you're talking about that threw away old books in the 70s and 80s.

[karakitap]

I wonder what happened to Pars Tuglaci's library?
I have the "Okyanus encyclopedia of Turkish dictionary" by Pars Tuglaci and I have to admit that Mr. Tuglaciyan is one of the most important lexicolog of Turkish language.

[Siamanto]

Armenia seems to be becoming a more and more pathetic country as each day passes. :(

What other county in the world would arrest someone for trying to export printed books which, by their definition, are mass-produced objects. It is obvious that it was just because he was Turkish, and not because of the actual books.

And almost none of those books will have originated in Armenia! Yerevan was a mostly a mud village full of illiterate peasants until last century. Most Armenian books were printed in Constantinople, in Venice, or in Tiflis. So, ironically, he should have stayed on his home ground and gone to Istanbul to get them. During the 1970s and 80s, when Armenians were leaving in their thousands to America or Europe, countless old Armenian books were just thrown away or burned: they could be read only by Armenians and to all Armenians they were worthless. But there should still be some to be found in second-hand bookshops and fleamarkets in Istanbul.

As for Armenia, there is little point in restricting the export of books when the number of public libraries there has been decimated, and the rest have been left to rot.

Maybe you and your perception are "becoming a more and more pathetic country as each day passes." LOL!

There are printed books of great value and considered to to be of great cultural value! What's your point?
Also, how the fact that it was not printed in Armenia would change their value?
So it really hurt your feelings to see your friends described as looters? :)

[Red Brigade]

All those problems are the consequences of One General Problem : The State.

[bell-the-cat]

No comment, as I have no idea what or how unique these books were. The question is, did he steal the books, or did someone give him permission to take them. If the latter, then he is not to blame, but whoever gave him permission, probably an ignorant Armenian.

Steve, have you ever heard of the Matenadaran? Yes, Armenians have ignored and continue to ignore some of their greatest authors. The reasons for this are plenty. During the Soviet era they had no choice but to censor or rat on opposing authors. Nowadays, they censor pro-Soviet works as they're trying to move on. I don't think this will last forever. There are still plenty of Armenians who do care about their literary heritage will do everything to keep these works in a safe place until the climate is right to have them mass-published for a larger audience.

As for libraries, if public libraries have decimated in the last decade because of the economic crash, most Armenians still have a private library in their own homes. The books in these are not few.

If books were burned in the early nineties during the hunger winters, it's because there was no other fuel for fire. Armenians didn't enjoy burning these books, but they had little choice after sawing down every tree and pulling out every bench in parks.

I don't know what (all) Armenians you're talking about that threw away old books in the 70s and 80s.

You've misunderstood me. :o

I was referring to Istanbul Armenians who just threw away all their old books in the 1970s and 1980s when they left to migrate to Europe or America.

Of course at that time there were too many Armenian books in Istanbul (the former capital of Armenian literary life) in relation to the now small Armenian population - but something should have been done to preserve these books and move them to places where Armenians were living. :(

I really regret never looking into that city's flea markets and secondhand bookshops in the late 80s and early 90s - but my interest in that sort of thing was minimal then. I bet, if I had known what to buy, I could have picked up original 19th century copies of Alishan's books for a few dollars, or 18th century printed bibles for not much more.

[bell-the-cat]

I have the "Okyanus encyclopedia of Turkish dictionary" by Pars Tuglaci and I have to admit that Mr. Tuglaciyan is one of the most important lexicolog of Turkish language.

Was, not is. He died a couple of years ago. :crying:

He wrote lots of books on art and architecture as well. And literary hstory.

I have his Turkish-English dictionary: personally I think the Oxford one is better.

[bell-the-cat]

There are printed books of great value and considered to to be of great cultural value! What's your point?
Also, how the fact that it was not printed in Armenia would change their value?


These books were in private ownership, not state ownership. I suppose that since the Armenian State thinks it can do what it likes with Armenian land and its population, it can also do what it likes with the populations' possessions.

I believe that the person who should own a book is the person that will make the most use of it.

[karakitap]

Was, not is. He died a couple of years ago. :crying:

He wrote lots of books on art and architecture as well. And literary hstory.

I have his Turkish-English dictionary: personally I think the Oxford one is better.
As I know, he was the write of the first and only Turkish medical dictionary as I remember from my uncle who is doctor.
And he looks as Dracula with long whiskers and harsh looking eyes. Nice guy he was.

[TigranJamharian]

Firstly, he most likely did not know what he was taking out nor did he know the law, that is the precise reason the Prosecuter's office will not be seeking a jail term for him.
Secondly, the Armenian government has every right to guard its historical and cultural treasures from looters and vagabonds and rightfully does so.

[anoush719]

22/06/2005

Armenia-Turkey

TURKEY OFFICIALLY APPEALS TO ARMENIA TO RELEASE TURKISH SMUGGLER

On June 17, Armenian National Security Service detained Turkish citizen Yeqta Turkyimaz for an attempt to export a large number of books dated 17-20 centuries. The same day Turkish public television responded to the arrest.

On June 21, Milliyet newspaper wrote, "Turkey takes steps to release Turkish scientist Yeqta Turkyimaz detained in Armenian capital of Yerevan. Owing to the absence of diplomatic relations between the two countries, Turkish ambassador to Georgia, Ertan Tezgyoz, passed the demand for release to the Armenian ambassador to the country. The sources of Foreign Ministry confirmed that Tezgyoz issued official appeal to the Armenian authorities. Turkyimaz is the first researcher who got official permission to study the Armenian archives. He was detained in Yerevan on suspicion of 'exporting ancient Armenian books' but there was no statement as to developments".

By Hakob Chalrian

http://www.azg.am/?lang=EN&num=2005062201

[TheTurk]

[The following is automatically translated using SYSTRAN.]

A Turkish student, arrested at the airport "Zvartnots" of Erévan in possession of rare works of which some dated from the XVIIe century

INHERITANCE, Sunday June 19 2005-Armenews- on June 17, the services of safety of the international airport "Zvartnots" of Erévan stopped a Turkish citizen who was on the point of flying away for Istanbul. The Armenian police force had discovered in the luggage of Ertogan Turkyilmaz, studying at the university "Duke" of South Carolina (the United States) a certain number of works literary, religious, cultural, political and scientists of XVIIe at the XXe century, who are for the Armenian authorities of the "major elements of the Armenian inheritance". The Armenian police force opened an investigation against what it regards as a diversion of the treasures of the inheritance of Arménie. Krikor Amirzayan


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk" or "*urkish" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!


http://www.armenews.com/New/news.asp?id_news=8130

Un étudiant turc, arrêté à l’aéroport « Zvartnots » d’Erévan en possession d’ouvrages rares dont certains dataient du XVIIe siècle

PATRIMOINE, dimanche 19 juin 2005-Armenews- Le 17 juin, les services de sécurité de l’aéroport international « Zvartnots » d’Erévan ont arrêté un citoyen turc qui s’apprêtait à s’envoler pour Istanbul. La police arménienne avait découvert dans les bagages d’Ertogan Turkyilmaz, étudiant à l’université « Duke » de Caroline du Sud (Etats-Unis) un certain nombre d’œuvres littéraires, religieuses, culturelles, politiques et scientifiques du XVIIe au XXe siècle, qui sont pour les autorités arméniennes des « éléments importants du patrimoine arménien ». La police arménienne a ouvert une enquête contre ce qu’elle considère comme un détournement des trésors du patrimoine de l’Arménie. Krikor Amirzayan

It seems to me that you *rmenians cannot distinguish betwen facts and fiction. This guy is (not surprisingly) innocent - he is being framed by the armenian police and politicians - another move in the great defamation plan you guys have been executing the last 100 years or so.

Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*rmenian" or "*rmenians" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!

[karakitap]

don't behave low like siamanto. no need to decline to his/her/its statue.

[TheTurk]

You're right Karakitap. There is no reason for me to sink down to their level...

:-) The Turk

[TigranJamharian]

Really... if we were framing him, why not just put him in jail and go the whole way instead of simply giving him a fine?

[bell-the-cat]

You're right Karakitap. There is no reason for me to sink down to their level...


Since you are already adept at crawling along on your belly. :laugh:

[anoush719]

Since you are already adept at crawling along on your belly. :laugh:


Meow

:laugh: