Is YEV a letter?

[Harut82]

1 down, 37 to go.

there are 39 letters in the Armenian alphabet

[HyeJinx1984]

*counts the letters again* I got 38 here... you're not counting "yev" are you? My teacher told us many Armenians mistakingly consider "yev" a letter.

[angelik22]

yev is another letter... whachoo talkin about?

[angelik22]

its a combo of yee and v, in shorthand we use yev... trust me

[Tres Bien]

yeah thats right! Yev is counted as a letter:)

[HyeJinx1984]

its a combo of yee and v, in shorthand we use yev... trust me

That's what he told us that's what other Armenians would say, he said in 'makoor hyaren' it doesn't count as a letter.

[Tres Bien]

you can write the it, the YEV , that means that its a letter if its in the alfphabet.

[ckBejug]

Yev is actually not a letter of the alphabet. That would be like saying & which is shorthand for AND, as in AND (&) in X, Y, &, Z is a letter. Don't be silly people. Mesrob Mashtots wrote down 38 letters of the Armenian alphabet. Don't make the poor guy turn over in his grave in shock at such a notion. Yev is a combination of yech and hiyoon, two distinct letters that make up a total of 38.

[HyeJinx1984]

Besides, even if Yev was a letter I'd pretend it wasn't so I'd have one less thing to learn, lol.

[sleuth]

Yev is actually not a letter of the alphabet. That would be like saying & which is shorthand for AND, as in AND (&) in X, Y, &, Z is a letter. Don't be silly people. Mesrob Mashtots wrote down 38 letters of the Armenian alphabet. Don't make the poor guy turn over in his grave in shock at such a notion. Yev is a combination of yech and hiyoon, two distinct letters that make up a total of 38.

Mesrop Mashtots wrote down 36 letters of the Armenian alphabet. The last letters : o and f lend from Latin alphabet. And u are right YEV is a combination of E( yetch) and V (VEV).The original Armenian alphabet( also called Mesropian) consist 36 letters.

[angelik22]

all i have to say is that i went to armenian school for about 6-8 years and i know as a fact that the YEV we use in armenian is a letter- its not included in the old version- of ayb bem keem... the grapar- but it is included in the everyday language we use- having written countless essays and papers in full armenian i know a few things abtuo the language and grammar- :D

[xBaron Dants]

Are we by any chance talking about the letter YECH?

ayp pen kim ta yech za e?

[ckBejug]

all i have to say is that i went to armenian school for about 6-8 years and i know as a fact that the YEV we use in armenian is a letter- its not included in the old version- of ayb bem keem... the grapar- but it is included in the everyday language we use- having written countless essays and papers in full armenian i know a few things abtuo the language and grammar- :D

Ok, let me try this again. YEV is an article-- the same as AND in English. They might have taught it as a LETTER to simplify your life but the fact of the matter is it is a WORD. It is not a letter in Krapar it is not a letter in Askharapar (which is what, ahem, NEW Armenian is called).


Apparently it is more often Hayastantsi's who are taught that YEV is a letter. I am seriously starting a new campaign. I am going to have my grandfather call up Armenian schools around here and make sure that they are not teaching such a mistake. What school did you go to? My aunt is the Armenian teacher at Ferrahian. My dad taught Armenian at Haygazian Varjaran in Haleb, my best friends mom taught Armenian at Mekitarian they all agree that yev is not a letter. So you learned wrong. Big deal. Just don't call it a letter from now on because people will look at you funny.

[ckBejug]

Are we by any chance talking about the letter YECH?

ayp pen kim ta yech za e?

No they think YEV as in hyoon pioor keh YEV oh Feh--> YEV is a word. It definitely is not. :(

[xBaron Dants]

No they think YEV as in hyoon pioor keh YEV oh Feh--> YEV is a word. It definitely is not. :(


Haha...that's actually cute.. Never thought of that..

[angelik22]

okie u know what- too bad i dont have armenian letters on my keyboard so i can show u that it is a letter- u know im not stupid- i went to armenian school for years- we learned both types of armenian- not just "hayastantsi" armenian FYI- maybe you should research a bit- yev is one single letter- although it can be written out using two letters- YE and V, i know that it is not an article- it an actual letter- i will find a site and show you-

[angelik22]

http://www.cilicia.com/armo_alphabet.html

[angelik22]

http://www.tacentral.com/language/alpha.asp

[angelik22]

This last letter is a combination of the sounds ‘ye’ and ‘v’, and represents the word ‘yev’, or ‘and’ when it is written by itself.

[xBaron Dants]

That's just a way to write it....Maybe some people have "naturalized" it in the alphabet, but it is definitely not a letter. Even the shape of it clearly shows that it's a merger of Yech and Hun. (Yev is written with a Hun by the way...not with a Vev)

[sleuth]

okie u know what- too bad i dont have armenian letters on my keyboard so i can show u that it is a letter- u know im not stupid- i went to armenian school for years- we learned both types of armenian- not just "hayastantsi" armenian FYI- maybe you should research a bit- yev is one single letter- although it can be written out using two letters- YE and V, i know that it is not an article- it an actual letter- i will find a site and show you-


OMG angelic..ckbejug is right ok??/..hope this will help u ,just scroll down page.And as i said original armenian alphabet by mesrop consist of 36 letters not 39.


http://www.haias.net/kultur/armenian-alphabet.html


yev is a conjunction, es ev du.....armene ev arame ....yevayln :laugh:

[ckBejug]

Obviously you didn't read this-------> Yev is actually not a letter of the alphabet. That would be like saying & which is shorthand for AND, as in AND (&) in X, Y, &, Z is a letter.

its a combo of yee and v, in shorthand we use yev... trust me

Yes it is a COMBINATION. Yes it is two letters together to make a word. Two LETTERS, stuck together, one WORD.

No one is saying you're stupid. You can go to an Armenian schools for as long as you like, it doesn't change the fact that it's not a letter. Look at the english example. Is & a letter? NO. Yev is not a letter and making it one to make things 'easier' for people doesn't give it any more validity as a letter.

[angelik22]

okie when i sense that someones really sstubborn i back down- go think whatever u want to think- all i am doing is letting you know that there is a difference of opinion- dont get ur panties in a bunch--
:D okie whatever u say- if u want it to be a WORD let it be- have a great day!! :)

[nunechka]

yev is a letter... after the genocide the scholars from around the world assisted armenians in compiling all the BOOKS that were left after the turks burned our schools down... the very smart literary scholars in armenia, russian, france and all over the world helped ARMENIA (the country) with this... and they came up with 39 letters because of the the BOOKS that were left... Mesrop Mashtots put together 36 letters but, after careful analysis of our writings and our literature and our books they put together the NATIONALLY ACCEPTED ARMENIAN letters and they entailed 39 letters...

for example in the english language there is the Shakespearian English and there is proper modern English, so people around the world who speak english speak the modern english, they dont go around changing the shakespear books, but they certainly are not going to stay outdated with their language skills...

so going back to armenian, the people who were not in ARMENIA but who were armenian, did not have the opportunity to take advangate of this, but what they did have were the limited teachings of priests, and family... therefore there was no critical analysis of the language its grammer its spelling for armenians outside of armenia... now you may be wondering how could they just not take it and use it from armenia... well many people, if you are from Iran, lebanon, or wherever, you can ask your parents, they had to lie and say they werent Armenian, or they hid their schools in peoples homes... whatever... so they did not have this capability to have advanced studies done about the language that was almost DISTROYED by the turks...

in essence... YEV is a letter... we know this because they have books written in OLD A$$ time that have that letter in the literature inside WORDS... WOW! yes that does exist... for example the word Yerevan (yer(yev)an) and in armenian in those super old books thats what is written, go to MATENADARAN books are old as BC times...

there are many words that use this letter... like Gevork (G(yev)ork)... correct grammer in usage of this word dictates that when you are making a (toghadarts) you must cut the (yev) into YE and E (that would be the (yes E) (not Eshi E)

what is incorrect about the "western" armenian literature is that there is no actual literature about it... it is a home taught (home grown) language that is not scholarary, and it is not studied by proper Armenian speakers... i actually am opposed to teaching this old style of language because it is grammatically, incorrect, and incosistent... they say they have 38 letter (i know they say its from Mesrop Mashtots but i thought he had 36) and they also say that they only have 26 sounds... WHY? when the BEAUTIFUL Armenian language that has been studied, developed, and enriched with analysis has 38 sounds.. and that 39th letter is YEV and its not a sound its a combination of two sounds that already exist in this BEAUTIFUl Armenian language...

so i say, tell your teacher that it is improper to say that what ARMENIA has is incorrect (and it has studied this for YEARS there are scholars, and academia specially made for this) and the armenians in other countries at the time could not use this, because of fear of being killed... so they just took one book and taught from what they could remember... and it was only 26 sounds and 38 (or 36 they are confused) long...

thanks for your wonderful time... live long and prosper ( i know this may be hard since we are armenian)

:)

[HyeJinx1984]

Some how I knew the answer lied within Baron Dants. Many things lie within Baron Dants. I know I do :naughty:

[jilbagh]

how many words are written with the supposed letter "yev"?


huh? huh? huh?


dorks :rolleyes:

[ckBejug]

yev is a letter... ....thanks for your wonderful time... live long and prosper ( i know this may be hard since we are armenian)

:)

Just because something is written in shorthand does not qualify it as a letter. Like I said, apparently it is more often the Arevelahay speakers (Hayastantsi Armenian) who have learned that yev is a letter, and Arevmdahays (dialect of those living under Arab rule) learn that it is not a letter. We can have this circular argument all day long and not get anywhere. We all have sources of information and not any one source is more valid than the other... It doesn't matter anyway. One extra 'letter', or lack thereof, makes no difference. Our language is still extrememly rich and beautiful and counting a combination of two letters as one will not change that fact.


what is incorrect about the "western" armenian literature is that there is no actual literature about it... it is a home taught (home grown) language that is not scholarary, and it is not studied by proper Armenian speakers...

This is complete and utter bullsh!t and you know it. 'Eastern' Armenian, or Arevelahayeren, is in no way superior to 'Western' Armenian, or Arevmdahayeren. :rolleyes: If you got your head out of your a$$ and actually read any of the wonderful Armenian literature and poetry out there you would see that the Armenian people are lucky to have such articulate and inspiring writers and orators. Both in Eastern and Western Armenian. Neither is incorrect or 'not scholarly.' We have well learned scholars and experts and panasdeghds and keroghs who write in both. They are both beautiful languages, they are both PROPER Armenian, but it is just like an Armenian to claim that the language he speaks is better than the one someone else speaks, isn't it?:(

[ckBejug]

Many things lie within Baron Dants. I know I do :naughty:

:eek: Whaaaaaaaaat?! :evil: :laugh:

[nunechka]

lol... i know it is incorrect to say that one is right and the other is wrong bcause we all have to be politically correct and not say (your poopie stinks in your face) and jsut say it in private...

i am a realist and i shall remain a realist...

and hyejinx how could you lie within baron dants? LOL!!!
HILARIOUS!

[Stark Evade]

nunechka: it is not a matter of being p.c.; it is a matter of not being unfair, ignorant, and pompous. I think everyone can agree that "yev" is a combination of two letters. That means it relies on a defined set of letters that are agreed upon. Can you tell me, linguistically, what the purpose would be to create a letter that is dependant on two other letters? Do you realize that it is unnecessary because in spelling it can be written with the two letters separated? There are no grammatical rules in Armenian that would have suggested the requirement to combine those two letters and use another "letter" instead which is a combination of those two letters. Do you realize that no other Indo-European language has such a thing? Those people you are talking about decided to make a shorthand form into a letter. Fine. But it wasn't based on a linguistic necessity that the Western dialect doesn't understand. That's just very unfair and pompous. And I have to say, that the idea of it being considered a seperate letter is utterly laughable. That's right: the short hand form of "and" in English should be considered a single letter so words like band and land and hand can actually be two letters in length. You do anderstand that a letter can be either a consonant or a vowel and not both at the same time, right? Also the whole notion of the Western dialect being taught only in unofficial environments is also ignorant. Melkonian was a very respected school that has existed in some form or another since the 1880s. There are also schools in lebanon that have been around since the early 20th century.

[xBaron Dants]

First off, HyeJinx...you're scaring me,, :rolleyes:
But I like you, so it's alright. :laugh:

Second, I shall say this for the LAST time. Arevelahayeren is not BETTER from Arevmdahayeren, and Arevmdahayeren is not BETTER from Arevelahayeren.

Both were constructed in the same time, one in Bolis, one in Tiflis, and both were based on the regional dialects. So to say that the "assimilation" of the dialects in the eastern provinces is "better" than the "assimilation" of the dialects in the western provinces is pure bull.

And how can it not be scholarly? What the hell are you talking about?? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Gostan Zaryan, Hagop Oshagan, Vahan Tekeyan, Siamanto, Mushegh Ishkhan, Taniel Varoujan, Roupen Zartatian, yev ter ovker.....These people wrote in and studied a "homegrown" dialect? If I cared enough, I'd send you full manuals dissecting every single fragment of arevmdahayeren..

And people in Lebanon, Syria, yevayln had to hide their schools?? LOOOOOL!!!! Yes, Lazar Najarian was actually my grandmother's basement...Jemaran was actually the backroom of my uncle's store..

megha megha...

[nunechka]

indo-euro what ever... our language is not indo nothing... its the PUREST language and implying that it is indo-euro it means it is a branch of something, but IT IS NOT a branch of anything... i know many books have been written about this, but think about it, how come there isnt anyone in this world that has letters like ours... is greek indo-euro? nope is armenian NOPE it isnt... it is the purest, the cleanest, and OLDEST language in this world and its not indo-euro...

the yev is a letter because it has been proven in ARMENIA that it is due to the books that were written in our BEAUTIFUL language that have the letter and its not an aggriviation or shorthand, it is a freakin letter...

it is a combination of SOUNDS not letters... i never said it was a combination of letters, it is a combination of SOUNDS of YE and E... SOUNDS not letters... it is a letter... like "W" it is double U... you people surprise me...

it is not the word and... because the word for AND in armenian is actually (correctly U) remember like Urartu... "U" that is the word AND, however in (our/your/we) dialect they say "yev yes el em uzum" ok... you dont even have the correct letter V..

gettattahere...

and stark jan, aziz jan, anoush jan... please read what i wrote about the schools in lebanon, or in any other country outside of armenia... you know its true, so dont deny it...

[jgm1975]

I think that the debate about the letter "YEV" shows once more how the petty and useless divisions among Armenians have been "institutionalized", to the point where they even affect our language. For centuries, ALL Armenians had an alphabet of 36 letters, as defined by Mesrop Mashtots. Then, when o and f were added, again ALL Armenians had 38 letters. The bogus 39th letter is only in Eastern Armenian, which was heavily influenced by the Soviets. For example, the Russians do not have the sound "ü". They have the sound "yu". So the "ü" was replaced by "yu" in Eastern Armenian. The fact is that both Western Armenian and Eastern Armenian have discrepancies with original Armenian. In my opinion, the script and writing of Western Armenian are right (38 letters, not 39) while the pronunciation of the consonants in Eastern Armenian is right. While some say "Kügh", and others say "Gyugh", we should all agree on saying "Gügh" and live in the same Armenian global village.
Finally, I agree entirely with Stark's latest post and the ridiculous linguistic implications of the letter "YEV".

[xBaron Dants]

Agreed with jgm.

Keep eastern pronounciations (except for the yu instead of the u), and western spelling (as opposed to the bullsheet Soviet one which has destroyed the Armenian language).

Once these changes are done, the difference between the dialects will no longer matter.

[nunechka]

ask your parents please before saying something stupid... werent schools created secretly in other countries for armenians? YES they were... which means that there was no mass route to ARMENIA where all of this was taking place...

and you have named many people who are great writers, but you havent named any armenians that have studied in the "hayastantsi" armenian , do i see a biased? yes i do...

there are also many great writers that wrote in eastern armenian like YEGHISE Charenz... yes he did, because the actual poems that he wrote are in eastern armenian... but when i came to america and went to armenian schools, for some reason it was "translated" for the western armos... WOW? WTF? yes it was "translated" they took writers and they changed the words and letters to fit their discription of the language, but in ARMENIAN they dont do that, they keep the original writers styles, mistakes, or whatever, they make peolpe read the poems and stories in the original language it was written in... since we respect our language our writers and how they wrote we should not translate it for the western armenian speakers, they should read it jsut like we did in ARMENIA...

you know KHENT the book was originally written in what oyu many call "EASTERN" armenian but the one here in the US has been "translated" for the pretty little lenebenese armenians, that is a DISCRACE to our country, our nation, and our LANGUAGE that has been in exists for THOUSANDS of years...

i read "yes im anush hayastani" poem by yeghisheh, and i couldn recognize it because it was "translated" for the western armenians... they TOOK from the poem and without thinking about it, changed what the man had written...

think about what oyu say before you say it, and yes i do take my advice... i know the facts and my dear, major schools made later in the 40s 50s and 60s were different the universities inside ARMENIA in the 20s and 30s...

western, eastern... whatever... armenians are armenians are armenians... and the only reason why the "westerners" like to distinguish themselves or used to like to distinguish themselves was because armenian use do to be part of the USSR and for politcal purposes they could not have outright connections with them because the the US would deport them to ARMENIA...

read a book, use common scense, be critical, and dont talk out of your behind...

[Stark Evade]

ask your parents please before saying something stupid... werent schools created secretly in other countries for armenians? YES they were... which means that there was no mass route to ARMENIA where all of this was taking place...

You just ignored a lot with this.

and you have named many people who are great writers, but you havent named any armenians that have studied in the "hayastantsi" armenian , do i see a biased? yes i do...

So? That still doesn't prove that "yev" is a letter.

there are also many great writers that wrote in eastern armenian

No! Really? Oops. I stand corrected... wait... NO BODY SAID THERE WASN'T.

... like YEGHISE Charenz... yes he did, because the actual poems that he wrote are in eastern armenian... but when i came to america and went to armenian schools, for some reason it was "translated" for the western armos... WOW? WTF? yes it was "translated" they took writers and they changed the words and letters to fit their discription of the language, but in ARMENIAN they dont do that, they keep the original writers styles, mistakes, or whatever, they make peolpe read the poems and stories in the original language it was written in... since we respect our language our writers and how they wrote we should not translate it for the western armenian speakers, they should read it jsut like we did in ARMENIA...

you know KHENT the book was originally written in what oyu many call "EASTERN" armenian but the one here in the US has been "translated" for the pretty little lenebenese armenians, that is a DISCRACE to our country, our nation, and our LANGUAGE that has been in exists for THOUSANDS of years...

i read "yes im anush hayastani" poem by yeghisheh, and i couldn recognize it because it was "translated" for the western armenians... they TOOK from the poem and without thinking about it, changed what the man had written...

What the hell are you going on about!? I didn't translate those and that has nothing to do with "yev"!

think about what oyu say before you say it, and yes i do take my advice... i know the facts and my dear, major schools made later in the 40s 50s and 60s were different the universities inside ARMENIA in the 20s and 30s...

"Think about what you say," said by the girl who typed "lenebenese."

You are still ignoring the fact that many schools were out in the open, respectable, and had funding.

western, eastern... whatever... armenians are armenians are armenians... and the only reason why the "westerners" like to distinguish themselves or used to like to distinguish themselves was because armenian use do to be part of the USSR and for politcal purposes they could not have outright connections with them because the the US would deport them to ARMENIA...

I have no idea why this paragraph exists.

read a book, use common scense, be critical, and dont talk out of your behind...

I used common sense. Now you try. Didn't you read anything I wrote about linguistics?

[nunechka]

stark i know you have a crush on me now... i love you too hun...

[xBaron Dants]

ask your parents please before saying something stupid... werent schools created secretly in other countries for armenians? YES they were... which means that there was no mass route to ARMENIA where all of this was taking place...

and you have named many people who are great writers, but you havent named any armenians that have studied in the "hayastantsi" armenian , do i see a biased? yes i do...

there are also many great writers that wrote in eastern armenian like YEGHISE Charenz... yes he did, because the actual poems that he wrote are in eastern armenian... but when i came to america and went to armenian schools, for some reason it was "translated" for the western armos... WOW? WTF? yes it was "translated" they took writers and they changed the words and letters to fit their discription of the language, but in ARMENIAN they dont do that, they keep the original writers styles, mistakes, or whatever, they make peolpe read the poems and stories in the original language it was written in... since we respect our language our writers and how they wrote we should not translate it for the western armenian speakers, they should read it jsut like we did in ARMENIA...

you know KHENT the book was originally written in what oyu many call "EASTERN" armenian but the one here in the US has been "translated" for the pretty little lenebenese armenians, that is a DISCRACE to our country, our nation, and our LANGUAGE that has been in exists for THOUSANDS of years...

i read "yes im anush hayastani" poem by yeghisheh, and i couldn recognize it because it was "translated" for the western armenians... they TOOK from the poem and without thinking about it, changed what the man had written...

think about what oyu say before you say it, and yes i do take my advice... i know the facts and my dear, major schools made later in the 40s 50s and 60s were different the universities inside ARMENIA in the 20s and 30s...

western, eastern... whatever... armenians are armenians are armenians... and the only reason why the "westerners" like to distinguish themselves or used to like to distinguish themselves was because armenian use do to be part of the USSR and for politcal purposes they could not have outright connections with them because the the US would deport them to ARMENIA...

read a book, use common scense, be critical, and dont talk out of your behind...

Nune, I'm sorry to say, but you are becoming quite annoying with your senseless conclusions.

The reason why I named only Western Armenian authors was to show you that it is not a homegrown, non-academic dialect. Nobody doubted the credibility of Eastern Armenian, so what would be the point of me saying anything about them? We all know Charents is great. And we all know that he's from Armenia. I've been reciting "Yes Im Anush Hayastani" (in its original form, by the way) since I was 4 years old. Tumanian is another master. I have practically grown up listening to Paregentan, Kach Nazar, Soodlig Vorsgane. Shiraz is good, though somewhat redundant, and my personal favourite, Baruyr Sevak, is pure genius.

I agree that poetry should not be "translated", as it loses its value. However, when novels such as Raffi's "Khent" (which I've also read in Eastern Armenian, by the way) are around, I see no problem in making it accessible to ALL Armenians. In a perfect world, everybody would speak both dialects, but since we aren't there yet, why should we cut off whole parts of our culture?

And before I ask anything to my parents, why don't YOU come over and ask them? I've been to an Armenian school in Syria, and so have my parents. If we had to keep our ethnicity secret, why is it clearly stated in our birth certificates that we are Armenian? Why are Armenian churches very visible in Syria, Lebanon, yevayln? You're not basing what you're saying on facts...just rumours. It's not coincidental that Syria and Lebanon have good relations with Armenia. Think about it.

[ckBejug]

stark i know you have a crush on me now... i love you too hun...

When at first you don't succeed... change the subject into something completely and utterly random, not to mention stupid.

[jilbagh]

YEV IS NOT A FREAKING LETTER!!!! stop going in circles and hallucinating like george bush!

Close this damn thread already...it's not even worth rating it 1 star

[Stark Evade]

stark i know you have a crush on me now... i love you too hun...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=evasion

[nunechka]

then lets say it is a letter and then close it... and yes maybe you should stop hallucinating like george bush...

[fIReBuRntInHeLL]

*counts the letters again* I got 38 here... you're not counting "yev" are you? My teacher told us many Armenians mistakingly consider "yev" a letter.


Jinx u r right "YEV" is not letter. Yev is like saying in english U V W X Y and Z.
Thats what it means! as an "AND" by ending the alphabet.

[nunechka]

fireburn read what i wrote above... i have clear examples of why it is a letter...

[Stark Evade]

then lets say it is a letter and then close it... and yes maybe you should stop hallucinating like george bush...

You act like you still believe it's a letter but you have no valid arguments left. I am sure you are now going to go and convince other people that it isn't a letter. I think we did a good deed here. Cheers to an Armenian unity!

[nunechka]

umm actually my dear stark, i have been the only with a REAL argument... i have not seen one single point made by anybody else...

i have been one of the only people to bring up FACTS and even use the letter in a word (not an abbriviation or shorthand)... but i have not gotten an single fact back from anyone else...

nunechka - all the points
everyone else - no point

so there it is... the only argument that makes me laugh is the TUVWXY and Z but you forget where the letter YEV is it isnt betweent he last letter and the one before last, it is: P K (YEV) O F... so next time you want to attempt at making a point, make sure you at least have the letters in the correct order... trust me hun... if you read what i wrote, then attempted the factoring of LOGIC into it, you would've never disagreed with me

i have a point, i made my point, and everyone else that disagreed NEVER had a point, NEVER had facts...

thanks for helping me make my point stark

[Stark Evade]

umm actually my dear stark, i have been the only with a REAL argument...

All your arguments were shot down because they made no sense.

i have not seen one single point made by anybody else...

Oh, so that's why you're still acting like a brat: you haven't been paying attention.

i have been one of the only people to bring up FACTS and even use the letter in a word (not an abbriviation or shorthand)... but i have not gotten an single fact back from anyone else...

nunechka - all the points
everyone else - no point


Wake up, little doggy. Come on.

so there it is... the only argument that makes me laugh is the TUVWXY and Z but you forget where the letter YEV is it isnt betweent he last letter and the one before last, it is: P K (YEV) O F... so next time you want to attempt at making a point, make sure you at least have the letters in the correct order... trust me hun... if you read what i wrote, then attempted the factoring of LOGIC into it, you would've never disagreed with me

This is the funniest (in a dumb way) thing I have read all day! And the irony of you using the word "logic" is the cherry on top. Oh brother!

i have a point, i made my point, and everyone else that disagreed NEVER had a point, NEVER had facts...

I hope you aren't Armenian. I really really do.

thanks for helping me make my point stark

*?* How did I do that exactly? I pointed out how wrong you were.

I'm done with this nonsense. I feel better knowing we've convinced you even though you still feel the need to act like you actually know something. A job well done.

[nunechka]

no one has "convinced" me of anything stark... you are incredibly rude... the question was asked, i gave my point of view and all you did was shoot it down... why dont you just give your point of view for ONCE and not insult someone...

you know if i also did not have anything to do in my day just like you, i would sit there and analyze what you have written, break it into little pieces like you did for my comments, and unfairly with a bias point of view critisize them...

i did not attack anyone, i defened myself against attacks on me... and you were one of the most malicious ones...

i believe that there is a yev in our alphabet because i was taught this in ARMENIA in school... how come from the schooling i got in Armenia i can read your armenian and understand you clearly when you speak, but you cant understand my armenian or read my armenian???

well i dont exactly know the answer to this, but apperantly the western armenian teachers felt that YOU couldnt read the poems from YEGHISHE CHARENTS the way that HE himself wrote it, so they had to translate it for you... but in Armenia we did NOT translate the writings from Grigor Zohrab for us into "eastern" armenian... well i guess the Armenian language and literature (grammer, spelling, and ALL THE BEAUTIFUL Letter including YEV) that i was taught in school in ARMENIA was inclusive of both east and west but maybe yours wasnt... well probably it wasnt since when i came here to the US thats what i was taugh in Armenian school...

i am not easily intimidated and forced into believe something just because you keep repeating your lies... just like bush and his lies... he kept saying al quada and iraq so much in one scentence that people started to think it was the same thing... but not the well taught people who knew better...

stark, if cant offer anything or contribute anything then please dont insult other people for their brave attempts at speaking out...

how old are you anyway? you are acting like a 10 years caught in a 30 year olds body...

have a wonderful day

[Siggie]

I am talking out of my ass. I haven't read anything Stark Evade or Baron Dants or ckBejug posted... or maybe I did and am choosing to ignore it so I can keep repeating things that have absolutely nothing to do with the word "yev." like the translation of certain literature from one dialect to another. Somehow I have become convinced that "shooting down" my arguments is in someway an incomplete task and that others are required to do more than that, like make chi kyufteh. Also I am using the tactic of claiming someone is being rude so I don't have to respond seriously to anything that person says because somehow I became convinced that people aren't smart enough to see that what I am posting is complete and utter bull nuggets. I hope Stark Evade will fall for the old "try and contribute something" routine and forget that he and the others did in fact bring up good points that I can't argue with because I don't know enough about it and because everything I say is based on rumors and both voluntary and involuntary ignorance.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I'm sorry... that was just too funny.

[xBaron Dants]

Actually nunechka, you haven't replied to anything that I've said.

Not to the fact that I've learned poems and read books in Eastern Armenian both in Syria and in Canada.

Not to the fact that I have actually lived and went to school in Syria, and some of my cousins continue to do so, and the situation never was the way you claim it were...

And also, for your bright little reply that the "yev" doesn't come right before the last letter like the "and" in english, it seems quite logical that it was added before the "O" because "O" and "Fe" were added later on, and were not in the original alphabet.

Anywho, is this "yev becoming a letter" thing one of the other brilliant decisions taken in 1922? Because you don't need to listen to us to know how ridiculous those changes were...Just ask Hrachya Ajarian, the most brilliant linguist we have ever had..

[nunechka]

BARON...

color or colour? i dont know but different schooling preach different spelling...

so we suffer from this... and which is correct? we dont know... so stop this argument... i went to armenian school here and in armenia... and my experiences are from THAT! i had to read Yeghishe Charents in a different way here in the US then in Armenia... but Yeghishe wrote in its original form what you may call in "eastern" armenian... so why the change here in the US? i dont know, i asked the teachers and they told me that it was because the armenians here wont understand the armenian from armenia... and i know it was in lebanon because my dads family fled from Musa Lerr to Lebanon and from there some of them (my father in particular) came to Yerevan and the rest stayed there and are still there... and they TOLD me how it was... they told me that they had to hide being armenian... i am not saying this because of what i read, i say this because my family was directly involved in all of this...

maybe in the 1990s the schools in syria were great, but that wasnt the case before, at the time we were all seperated and our fate as a culture, our language was actually declared as distinct, because after WW1 people thought there were no more armenians left in this world...

edit: please do not threaten other forumers

[xBaron Dants]

In Canada it's "colour".

But for Armenians, it goes a bit further than that. As you know, in the mid to late 1800's, two Armenian dialects were "officially" adopted, in Tiflis and Bolis, respectively. Now, first thing that must be done is to recognize that both these dialects, when used properly, are purely Armenian and just as clean.

The problems came later. The Western Armenian provinces had begun to lose the nuances in pronounciation, such as b-pb-p, g-gk-k...and the prominent figures of Arevmdahayeren wrongfully decided to let it be, instead of putting more effort to reteach the proper form.

In Eastern Armenia, which became the ASSR, Stalin's ugly head reared our way, and overnight, it was decided to make Armenian spelling more "simple", by using the "write as it sounds" method. The official reason for this was that it was the first step towards the eventual creation of one Soviet language. An unofficial, yet probable reason was that it widened the gap between those living in Soviet Armenia, and their brothers now spread around the world. It is noteworthy that Hrachya Ajarian, the famed linguist, never ever accepted these changes, and refused to write his last name with a "hi", as the new spelling rules stipulated, and therefore signed all his documents as "Hrachya Ajar." His tombstone is probably the only tombstone in Yerevan where the final "yan" is written with the "yech", and not the "hi".

This new spelling is also a reason why some Armenian schools might decide to not keep works from Armenia as is. Since spelling is already harder due to the letters that sound alike, it would be even more complicated to introduce the Soviet spelling also, which is, let's all admit, flawed.

In our case however, we kept the texts in Arevelahayeren, but written in the original Armenian spelling.

[nunechka]

baron, that is what the diaspora has "accepted" the explaination to be... no one not stalin no one can change the armenians and their language... just ask people from ARMENIA, there is no trace of that MORON... stalin never had influence in armenia, actually he did when he decided to give parts of armenia to georgia and azerbejan... THAT F#CK! ... people HATE HIM armenian people 90% of them that is in armenia HATED anything to do with soviet and never accepted the comunizm... armenians still had churches when everyone one else was had their churches taken down and distroyed... armenians did not do this "write as it sounds thing" it was the ACCEPTED and historically accepted way of writing, speaking and reading... for that matter the way to speak in armenia around yerevan, lori, dilijan, nakhichevan, etc...

i know that this is different from what you may know, or from what were told, but as you remember what i said in a previous post, it was that people outside of armenia could not outright support or have connection with armenia because it was in the soviet union, and we were in a cold war...
so mayeb thats why you think we were influenced by stalin... THAT COULDNT BE FURTHER fromt he TRUTH! how anyone say that, i can even say that about the most infomously hated person in the world now (osama)...

let alone armenians... they were not stupid... they are not stupid and they are not going to let some Idiot with a CAPITAL I influence them...

i went to armenia this june and i have relatives there that live in gyumri, a village... and the people that live there i was realy surprised at how smart they are... they were clearly aware of bush's actions and they hated him for it... my oldest uncle said "if this idiot continues this we are all going to die" and so i got into a converstation with him and i found out that the simplest people in this world that live in villages that milk their cows and make their own butter an sour cream know more about society, civil liberties, freedom, ideology then the fools who live here in the metropolitan cities of the "richest country in the world"

and so that is our armenian public and please dont ever think that they were ever sweyed... WE, THEY, US have an unfortunate past thats all...

we were not stupid, to be influenced by stalin... OHH PELASE! oh my god help us if anyone has ever believe that FOOL!

[ckBejug]

Ok, lets all settle down, shall we? Starky, some people around here cannot appreciate your form of humor so please tone it down so as not to offend the easily offended parties. Nunechka please do refrain from using profanity to get your point across. We understand you're both trying to convince eachother something. Let's try to be more civil about it.

YEV is not a letter. In fact, nunechka, you have not been really reading anything we're telling you. Let's go for a simple fact. Yev means AND. It has a definition. How many letters do you know have a definition? Sheesh. Think about it! YEV means AND. YEV is a combination of two letters, no matter what you were taught.

[jilbagh]

like i said, how many words contain the supposed letter "yev"....yev= and, yevayln = and so on (dedicated to baron), yev voret khoteh = and stick it up your as$....see a trend?

now stop the freakin' insanity and find a hobby!!!

YOU'RE FIRED!!!!

[ckBejug]

Well I guess this has gone far enough...

http://www.dal.ca/~jughead/graphics/dead-end.gif

In other words....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/Emil77/Trump.jpg