"IF THE ARMENIANS WISH, THEY CAN CONQUER AZERBAIJAN"

[dikranjohn]

While in Baku They Are Hopeful That "in the Coming 25-30 Years There Will Be No State Called Armenia in the Southern Caucasus"

"’How to liberate the occupied territories?’ This question is likely to be put forward in each family of Azerbaijan. It is impossible to liberate the Nagorno Karabagh and the neighboring regions without military actions. There has been no case in the military history when the conquered territories were voluntarily liberated," the recent issue of Baku’s Zerkalo wrote. Ramiz Melikov, Press Speaker of Azeri Defense Minister, stated recently that "there will be no state called Armenia in the South Caucasus in the coming 25-30 years, as today’s Armenia was founded on the Azeri historical territories and in near future these lands will be controlled by Azerbaijan." Melikov didn’t specify how they are going to conquer Armenia.

President Ilham Aliyev and the supreme military officials state in public that the Azeri army is more efficient than the Armenian one and if the peaceful negotiations yield no results, Azerbaijan will have to solve the issue of Nagorno Karabagh and the neighboring territories under Armenia’s control through military actions. It’s worth mentioning that Baku has been consistently trying to solve the issue through military actions since 1998, when the new stage of Karabagh struggle began.

Vladimir Kazimirov, Former Special Russian Ambassador of OSCE Minsk Group, wrote in one of his recent articles that the sides in conflict had many opportunities to stop the war, to set up ceasefire even in 1992. He states in his article that the Azeri side was violating the ceasefire mainly, hoping to solve the conflict through war, making all the Armenians leave the territory.

Kazimirov said that in June of 1992, there appeared an opportunity to stop the military actions on the front line and open the OSCE Minsk conference, but Abulfaz Elchibey put forward a precondition, i.e. the Armenians should leave Shushi and Lachin. On May 8 and 18 the Karabagh forces liberated Shushi and took control over Lachin corridor, securing land connection between Armenia and Karabagh.

Kazimirov, who implemented a mediator’s mission in the region for 47 times, recollects that in July, 1992 the Karabagh side agreed to signing ceasefire, but Elchibey was stubborn, and only in the spring of 1993, when the Karabagh forces took the control over Kelbajar, the pro-Turkish Baku government gave consent for ceasefire.

One shouldn’t forget that Elchibey once promised to wash his feet in the Sevan waters. It’s worth mentioning that the Azeri armed forces conquered almost the half of Karabakh’s territory in the summer of 1992.

In June of 1993, the Azeris and the Karabagh people began direct negotiations that helped make a ceasefire for a while. But Heydar Aliyev, who came to power in Baku through military revolution, wanted to regain the lost through military action. Again the Azeris began refusing the settlement of the Nagorno Karabagh conflict through negotiations. On July 23 the Karabagh forces took the control over Aghdam, the neighboring dwelling places, a number of hills of military meaning. Only after all these steps the Azeris stopped bombing Stepanakert.

Notwithstanding the obvious military benefits, the Karabagh side through the Russians’ mediatorial efforts again gave the consent to stop military actions and set up a ceasefire on July 24, the very next day after conquering Aghdam. Azerbaijan secured the ceasefire for several days, but it broke the agreement afterwards. As a result, the Karabagh forces took control over Fizuli, Jebrail and Kubatlun in the August of 1993.

Two secret meetings took place between Heydar Aliyev and Robert Kocharian in Moscow in the autumn of 1993. In this period Aliyev was engaged in settling the problems of inner character, he made legal the results of the military-state revolution that took place several months ago and occupied the post of Azerbaijan’s leader. Few days after the inauguration the Azeri armed forces began the military actions again. Hundreds of the Armenian soldiers were killed as a result of the large-scale attack in Kelbajar’s direction in winter. But the failure didn’t last long. The Karabagh forces began a large-scale attack and Azerbaijan lost at least 2000 soldiers in few days.

In the April of 1994, the Karabagh forces were ready to conquer Tartar, Bardan and Gianjan and reach Georgia’s border. The Azeri were made to set a ceasefire. It took place in Bishkek, May. This ceasefire is being secured till now with some violations.

By the way, the American Boston Globe daily dedicated a publication to the Nagorno Karabagh Issue. The reporter of the daily cites the words of Mamedov, Azeri Major, who was dwelling on the situation in Azerbaijan fighting against Armenia and Azerbaijan. He says:" If the Armenians wish, they can conquer the whole Azerbaijan."

The militant statements made by the Baku officials should be paid attention. As soon as Azerbaijan becomes certain about the possibility of settling the issue through applying arms, the war will begin. Anyway, the events of 1991-94 testify to this.

By Tatoul Hakobian
Posted on this froum by dikran nakashian Network Of European Armenian Students (http://www.neast.co.nr)

[Darorinag]

An attack on Azerbaijan is next to impossible, not militarily, but strategically (in the region). Azerbaijan's big bro (or is it sis? :laugh: ) Turkey wouldn't let that happen. Ditto for USA.

[dikranjohn]

totally agree, but what if Azerbaijan started full scale war????. then......?

[Tres Bien]

Only if USA decidedes to send troops to Azerbadjian in full scale...or to bomb armenia will Azerbadjian decide on starting a war and fight against amenians, why? because they are cowards.

the israelis in general, are very coward if they stand next to a palestinian and havve no weapons in there hands...they will never take up a fight with them, but- the palestinian would..and they are struggling to bring justice to their nation just like the armenians.

[Darorinag]

It matters little who starts full scale wall. Turkey, Israel, and USA will be there for Azerbaijan regardless. Need I even remind you of who occupied whose land in Palestine and who has the military support and financing now?

Any Armenian who supports Israel is a traitor and I wouldn't hesitate to fight against them. Israel denies the Armenian genocide.

Israel's relationship with Turkey is much more than having a "friendly" Muslim country in the region. It's about the entire holocaust industry (and their need to feel 'unique'). And then they use Rwanda to cover up their denial of the Armenian genocide. Either way, USA can't do anything without Israeli green light (although most people think it's the other way around). Just think about it. If Israel decides that USA should deploy its troops in Azerbaijan, USA will do it. USA has absolutely no interest of its own. It's not a separate entity at this point. You can even consider USA a colony of Israel. Anyway, bottom line is, Israel is Turkey's ally, and naturally, USA will support Turkey (and Azerbaijan)..

[HyeJinx1984]

Is it just me or is the title of this thread actually the OPPOSITE as to what it's about.

[shasa]

Go Ahead Armenians, Conquer Azerbaijan, Conquer Turkey, Destroy Israel, Kill Em All!!!!!

[shasa]

And of course when will the glorious Armenian forces start to conquer Turkey? (or western Armenia)

[HyeJinx1984]

Tomorrow if we wanted. If every man woman and child took up arms. But Armenians are selfish and cowardly lot these days...

...

Oh god, I'm turning into what I hate... *smacks self*

Armenians! Strongest people in the world!!! xxxx EVERYONE ELSE!!!

[HyeJinx1984]

Go Ahead Armenians, Conquer Azerbaijan, Conquer Turkey, Destroy Israel, Kill Em All!!!!!

Yes let us destroy Israel. Shall we masacre the large armenian population that occupies a QUARTER of Jerusalem as well? anti-semetic twit...

[shasa]

I am not anti-semetic Mr. self-hating Armeinan.

[shasa]

If you don't believe it you never can do it, Mr. self-hating armenian.

[HyeJinx1984]

Oh, don't start with me. Calling me a self-hating Armenian is like calling Malcom X head of the KKK. Get to know me first then make your judgements. My fanatical nationalism would probably scare even you.

[shasa]

OK, sorry if you are a patriotic Armenian. I just don't like people behave as if I am dreaming when talking about re-conquest our historical lands. It is not so unrealistic option, maybe not now but we have to prepare us to the future.

[HyeJinx1984]

I agree. There are two ways though... a loud wind or a silent storm. Weshould pick our paths carefully.

[shasa]

We can start with Nakhichevan to conquer, a former Armenian land and has a very weak link with azerbaijan.

[Tres Bien]

You could start and then we'll follow you. Be the first one to set an example

and take the opportunity when its there!


:)

[shasa]

of course, I can start
first azerbaijan, the Ararat, Van, Cilicia, Erzerum, Ankara, Constantinople.........
KILL'EM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vorry tsak turks...
Anatolia is of Armenians and Greeks
One day we will do it.
Just try to believe it instead of joking with me

[HyeJinx1984]

Shasa that's a stupid, stupid strategy. You must have OIL if you want to be a genocidal maniac and not be held accountable *Taps his temple* think, think...

[xBaron Dants]

Can't help but say..

Shoone ge haché, karavane ge kalé...

[HyeJinx1984]

I got all that 'cept "karavane"

[anomaly]

Never.

Unless the world falls headfirst into a global war such as the one seen 60 years ago. And maybe if Turkey and USA and Russia and Georgia lose 99.999% of their military in a freak dimensional anomaly.

Which is highly unlikely at this point.

Even if it were so, why would Armenia want to attack its neighbors? Maybe Azerbaijani scenario would be more succesful, but the highly mobile, and disciplined Turkish 3rd army (Eastern Provinces) would counter-pulverize any attempt. You can't expect 50,000 (maximum optimistic view for the next quarter-century) rag-tag Armenian militia to win over 500,000 (minimum for the next ten years) state of the art Turkish troops.

Instead of war, a smarter choice would be to channel those resources into farming and development. Because let's face it, as rich as the Armenian lobby may be in the States, the Armenian people are starving. Trade, investment, industry are better choices for a bright Armenian future. Instead of a meaningless expansionist war.

Maybe it's time the Armenians in the US stopped getting fat, and helped their homeland brethren prosper.

[HyeJinx1984]

Instead of war, a smarter choice would be to channel those resources into farming and development. Because let's face it, as rich as the Armenian lobby may be in the States, the Armenian people are starving. Trade, investment, industry are better choices for a bright Armenian future. Instead of a meaningless expansionist war.

Maybe it's time the Armenians in the US stopped getting fat, and helped their homeland brethren prosper.

Totally agree..........................

[patlajan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3665688.stm
Enough said

[dstyle]

No ones attacking anyone, except Azerbaijans governement is the only one threatening to.
Armenia vs. Turkey we have no chance everyone knows that but the Azeris and Georgians haha they have no chance against us.

One more thing leave us fat people alone. lol.

[HyeJinx1984]

No ones attacking anyone, except Azerbaijans governement is the only one threatening to.
Armenia vs. Turkey we have no chance everyone knows that but the Azeris and Georgians haha they have no chance against us.

One more thing leave us fat people alone. lol.

Something I was thinking about...

By nature, Armenians are ambitious people... I've never met a lazy Armenian in my life, especially when it comes to business and being entrepreneur. I live in Southern California which has a LOT of Armenians in it, and to be honest, most of them are NOT well off and live modest lives. Also, a lot of these Armenians are first generation immigrants. Now, I also know Armenians who's families have been here two sometimes three generations already. Almost ALL of them are very well off. Perhaps these same "lower class" Armenians that populate Van Nuys will grow into sucessful people, if not them, their children will. Like I said... I've never seen a lazy Armenian.

Now, what I'm getting at is that if Armenians by and large are sucessful people... would a "return to Armenian" movement be beneficial to the economy or not? Armenia's biggest economic problem right now is the lack of jobs as well as decreasing population... which ironically go hand in hand with each other. If relatively well off diasporans move back to Armenia, would the invested interest reinvigorate the country or not? People always say it's said that everyone's leaving Armenians... but if everyone returns, could it really support us?

[dstyle]

At this point with the current state of Armenia, Armenian politics, and the real problem the mafia, there is no way Armenia can even support a significant amount of its people returning home. A few hundred thousand at best, not the millions of Spyoork.

Off what Hye Jinx said about middle class, low class and potentionally upper class/rich people.
Just look at the difference between the Armenians on the east coast and west coast, we all on the west coast live pretty much modest lives, middle class and such, but man from what I've seen of east coast Armenians, most are upper upper class, or just plain old upper class. I agree give it time, we will prosper even more.

[HyeJinx1984]

Yea, Armenians have beenm on the east coast longer than the west coat, che? I also think these same "rabiz good for nothings" will be owning law firms and real estate agencies within the next 25 years. However, can rich Armenians save Armenia? Is money, wisely invested, all we need?

[dstyle]

No of course the country needs to be repopulated, but it's going to be hard, everyone sees how bad it is, and most people still in the worse scenerios here live cozy lives. Now if somehow something dramatic happened and the country made a 180 and became more umm clean I guess, I can see certain people moving back, but there's too many stories of people moving there and losing everything, because they got ripped off by you know who.

There is also the fact of assimilation, how long before the estimated 7* million stays stangant or even goes down.

[HyeJinx1984]

There is also the fact of assimilation, how long before the estimated 7* million stays stangant or even goes down.

S'why I saw Armenian families should produce as many kids as they can financially and (almost more importantly) emotionally afford. I mean, let's be realistic... Armenia's numbers keep dropping while Azeri's keep increasing. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what that could lead to.

[dstyle]

S'why I saw Armenian families should produce as many kids as they can financially and (almost more importantly) emotionally afford. I mean, let's be realistic... Armenia's numbers keep dropping while Azeri's keep increasing. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what that could lead to.

Ya I agree completely, its a scary sight.

[HyeJinx1984]

but this is where we come full circle, Armenia can't sustain a growing population, by the same token we need a growing population. There's a kog, or maybe thousands, in the machine that seem to be out of place.

[shasa]

Armenian economy is not working, there is no job in Armenia but also no place to produce and export, Turkey is blockading the trade line between Armenia and EU and alternative roots make import too expensive.
Democracy is more or less OK for 10 years of independance but investors do not come because there is no stability.

[HyeJinx1984]

If only we weren't a land locked country... *sigh*

Speaking of independence, we're having our 13th year annuversary soon, che? September 21st I believe... maybe 22nd.

[dstyle]

21 was the vote, 23 was the announcement that yes won. Blockade has killed a lot of things.

[shasa]

oh sure,sorry:)

[HyeJinx1984]

21 was the vote, 23 was the announcement that yes won. Blockade has killed a lot of things.

A bitter celebration then. But aren't there bigger problems in Armenia? I may be wrong, but really, how much better would things be if Turkey's blockade was lifted? Sure it would help, but there are so many other problems.

[shasa]

corruption,mafia,democratic culture,etc...

[HyeJinx1984]

corruption,mafia,democratic culture,etc...

That's what I was getting at, the blockade is an after thought to all those problems.... or perhaps those problems are caused by the horrible economy which is impart caused by the blockade?

[dstyle]

Mer Hayrenik azad angakh for Abrere tar e tar. etc.

[Hayq]

Without proper funding and teamwork, we can not build a military, and we can not conquer anyone. We need to start from there, an economy, and industry...the armed forces will follow shortly.

[Virgil]

Yes let us destroy Israel. Shall we masacre the large armenian population that occupies a QUARTER of Jerusalem as well? anti-semetic twit...

:laugh:

HyeJinx please define a Anti-Semite? Are Arabs "Anti-Semitic"? By your logic they are since they critisize Israel, now, please explain to me how they can be Anti-Semitic when in fact they are Semites themselves? They must really hate themselves.

Second of all, Armenians have been living in Jerusalem ever since Roman times, but today they are indirectly being "pushed out" of the Armenian querter, so, to assume that Armenians should be grateful towards xxxs is a bit inconsistent because Jerusalem has only been under Israeli control for only the past 60 years. IF anything xxxs should thank Christians for practically handed over the "holy land" to them not the other way around.

Third of all, I am sure if xxxs and Israel had been reduced to a third world country no one on these would give a flying xxxx what happend to them, but because they are the majority of intellectual, political, and economic elite of the U.S., a few Armenians, think by brown nosing they will "get ahead".

Personally, I have nothing against xxxs and don't care what happens to Israel, but when they use Armenain issues to progress then that is where I draw line. See it would be one thing if Armenians lobbied on behalf of Arabs, but we don't, however, xxxs directly lobby for Turks, thus, the friend of my enemy is my enemy.

[HyeJinx1984]

I am not anti-semetic Mr. self-hating Armeinan.
And on what basis are you calling me a self-hating Armenian? When have I ever said anything to make you believe I am a self hating Armenian? You've called me this twice now and I don't get it. What kind of good Armenian goeas around putting down others Armenians? Apparently you.

You're tactic seems to be "agree with me or I'll call you a self-hating Armenian.. which should piss you off because, after all, it's coming from me, and I'm the ultimate judge on all things Armenian-related." Sorry kid, I don't mean to judge before knowing you too well, but from what I've seen from your posts you're not half the Armenian I am, you're just a child with an overactive imagination who let's his zeal get the best of him which will probably, in the end, be your undoing. Don't f*ck with me pokur akhper jan, I am scary.

[HyeJinx1984]

:laugh:

HyeJinx please define a Anti-Semite? Are Arabs "Anti-Semitic"? By your logic they are since they critisize Israel, now, please explain to me how they can be Anti-Semitic when in fact they are Semites themselves? They must really hate themselves.

Second of all, Armenians have been living in Jerusalem ever since Roman times, but today they are indirectly being "pushed out" of the Armenian querter, so, to assume that Armenians should be grateful towards xxxs is a bit inconsistent because Jerusalem has only been under Israeli control for only the past 60 years. IF anything xxxs should thank Christians for practically handed over the "holy land" to them not the other way around.

Third of all, I am sure if xxxs and Israel had been reduced to a third world country no one on these would give a flying xxxx what happend to them, but because they are the majority of intellectual, political, and economic elite of the U.S., a few Armenians, think by brown nosing they will "get ahead".

Personally, I have nothing against xxxs and don't care what happens to Israel, but when they use Armenain issues to progress then that is where I draw line. See it would be one thing if Armenians lobbied on behalf of Arabs, but we don't, however, xxxs directly lobby for Turks, thus, the friend of my enemy is my enemy.

You realize that "xxx" and "Israeli" are two different things right? Yes, they are very closely related, but still... Israelis are very different from xxxs. Being a xxx is a religious choice, not a politcal one. Israelis on the other hand I have my issues with. And no, critisizing Israel doesn't make you anti-semetic, however being a blind sided idiot who thinks xxxs are inherently the devil's children and must be destroyed before they have us all in chains with whips to our backs DOES. I critisize xxxs more than anyone here, BELIEVE ME... but only a RACIST would hate a xxx for being a xxx.

[Virgil]

You realize that "xxx" and "Israeli" are two different things right? Yes, they are very closely related, but still... Israelis are very different from xxxs. Being a xxx is a religious choice, not a politcal one. Israelis on the other hand I have my issues with. And no, critisizing Israel doesn't make you anti-semetic, however being a blind sided idiot who thinks xxxs are inherently the devil's children and must be destroyed before they have us all in chains with whips to our backs DOES. I critisize xxxs more than anyone here, BELIEVE ME... but only a RACIST would hate a xxx for being a xxx.

HyeJinx, you are right you shouldn't "hate" anyone. I will admit that I somtimes let my emotions get the best of me, but you have to admit at the very end the actions of the xxxish lobby, Israel, and the in general the xxxish population is unethnical.

For instance, the "media" (xxx infested) instead of condeming, focusing on, and critisizing the actions of Chechin terrorist (I.E. recent school seige) they are now blaming President Putin. Now, honestly, think about how ridiculous this is? And we all know that once Chechniya becomes "independent" then most likly it will be another resource source for the U.S., Israel, and Turkey.

My point is that they are directly waging "war" against their enemies. IF you think I am paronoid just read the articles on Chechen terrorist. They make them seem like these "holy" crusaders. They are waging this same propaganda war on Armenians as well by continually labeling our issues with both sides.

Lastly, the reason that I hate using the word "Anti-Semite" is because it eventually will be used on you. IT is a way of censoring any opposition. Arabs and Hebrews are both "semites" to say that one is "Anti-Semite" would be the equivalent of saying he hates himself.

By the way, the actions of xxxish lobby (I.E. xxxish organizations, writers, and intellectual elites) benefits the xxxish population in the end just like the actions of Turks benefits Turks in the end. Really think about this, if tomorrow the Armenian lobby was to deny the holocaust in order to "get in bed" with Germany do you honestly think the xxxish people would not label Armenians as "Anti-Semites"? Of course they will, which is why their actions makes them Anti-Armenian.

[HyeJinx1984]

I agree with you a hundred percent, but the mentality of some Armenians would be for me to go up to my best friend Guy, or my other friends Gil and Ari, point a finger in their face and say "YOU are lobbying against Genocide!" when I know for a fact they've defended the Genocide to nay-sayers before without me even being around to tell them to do so.

Speaking of lobbies, that's the only way to get anything done in America. If you're not a pressure group you can't get anything done. xxxs have a very well organized pressure group which is why such a tiny, insignificant country like Israel gets so much help. There's nothing immoral about being in the governments face and saying "Yo, listen to US now." Armenians as a whole need a stronger pressure group... hence, the other thread I made about Ara Abrahamian.

[Virgil]

There's nothing immoral about being in the governments face and saying "Yo, listen to US now."

No, that is not what I was referring to. What I find unethical is how they deny the Genocide in order to further their own goals. This would be the equivalent of Armenian lobbies jumping in bed with Germany by denying the holocaust in order to solidify their bilateral economic relationship. Or it can be the equivalent of Armenians lobbying on behalf of Arabs in order to gain more "rights" in Islamic countries. My point is that in general they are progressing from our decline and thus, what they may be doing is the most benefitial choice, but it not the most ethnical. They shouldn't even be using our genocide as a political tool to fatten their bellies. Furthermore, the way they shove the holocaust in my fave everyday of year is another reason as to why they hypocrits, unethnical, and greedy group of people. How can you push for the genocide, but yet deny the holocaust? To be honest, they are different to a certain extent, but again centralized order of extermination is a centralized order of extermination regardless of the technicalities.

[HyeJinx1984]

True, which is why I don't find Israel to be an honorable nation. However that doesn't change my opinion on xxxish people.