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TigranJamharian
12-05-2003, 03:31 PM
What do you think happened at Sartarapat and how is it that the lowly Armenian nation, although defeated at that battle, was able to hold back the mighty Persian empire and eventually get a treaty out of them?
dstyle
12-06-2003, 08:32 AM
Sardarabad? that was against the turks man
TigranJamharian
12-06-2003, 12:31 PM
Yes agains the turks also. but that was in 1920

Dont you know about Vartan Mamikonian against the Persians and how we held them back when they wanted to convert us to fire worshipers. That was back in 451 Ad i think. Im not sure because I havent gone to Armenians school since 8th grade so I forgot all my dates.
Anonymouse
12-06-2003, 12:42 PM
You know, I think it is fair to butt and say that when you are referring to "us" that is not keeping in tune with history.
xBaron Dants
12-07-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by TigranJamharian Yes agains the turks also. but that was in 1920

Dont you know about Vartan Mamikonian against the Persians and how we held them back when they wanted to convert us to fire worshipers. That was back in 451 Ad i think. Im not sure because I havent gone to Armenians school since 8th grade so I forgot all my dates.


That was the battle of Avarair, near the Dghmod river, not Sartarabad.

Im Hayrenyats hoki Vartan,
Hokis hokvooyt yeghni ghoorban,
Vor Dghmoodi aperi mod,
Vatsoon Hazar Gdrichnerov,
Zargir, Zargvar, Ingar Kach kach
Barsige spradz i tsakh ou ach.

Anyone know that song?

Anywho, Armenia's victory over Persia was something spectacular. Armenia's 60 000 soldiers were able to not only hold back the 300 000 persians, but there were actually more deaths on the Persian side, than on the Armenian one (well I guess that kinda makes sense). The victory was due to Mamigonian's great tactical skills (being able to turn the persian elephants against the persians, etc), but I have been a firm believer that a nation defending its own existence will always fight stronger and pull off some miracle, as opposed to one that is invading foreign territory.

We pulled pretty much the same stunt at Sardarabad against the Turks, and in Artsakh against the Azeris.

Our military commandment has always been top-notch though. (Mamigonian, Zoravar Antranig, Dro (good general, bad politician), Sargsyan (ditto)).
TigranJamharian
12-07-2003, 04:39 PM
I stand corrected Baron. You are correct it was Avarair. I just remembered.

Yes I remember that song because they taught that in Armenian school. I love it.

Doesnt the tale go that when the Persians told Mamikonian to convert he told them htat he would and when he got back to the Armenians they had heard so they were going to turn him out but then he explained how he had done it to gain time on the Persians? But that battle was lost Baron. Although we did very well considering the odds the battle went to the Persians and Mamikonian was killed. But after that the Armenians did not give up but kept fighting until the Persians gave up and signed a treaty in which they promised to leave Armenia alone.

Dont you wish you lived back then in those times? When life was so much simpler.
xBaron Dants
12-07-2003, 06:12 PM
Battle shmattle. The goal of the war was to convert Armenia to whatever religion Persia had at that time, and they failed to succeed, therefore I consider it a victory. It was Vartan's nephew Vahan who signed the treaty in 484, I believe.

The way I remember the story, Vartan and all the armenian Kings were invited to Persia to negociate, but were then jailed. Vassag then came with the plan to tell the Shah of Persia (was he called a Shah back then?) that they had converted, and wanted to go back to Armenia to spread the news and enforce the new law. Of course, it was all a lie, which the Kings had difficulty proving to their people, as they had already heard rumours.

Vasag, however, turned out to be a traitor after all, and turned against Armenia during the war.

I think I'm gonna read Derenik Demirdjian's Vartanank again...
Anonymouse
12-07-2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by TigranJamharian

Dont you wish you lived back then in those times? When life was so much simpler.

No.
TigranJamharian
12-07-2003, 07:34 PM
money feeds you and destroys you anon? Is that what it says? that is why you wouldnt want to live back then.

Yes Baron I am really interested in the history and I would love to learn Armenian history again from a more mature viewpoint than 7th grade history class.
Anonymouse
12-07-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by TigranJamharian money feeds you and destroys you anon? Is that what it says? that is why you wouldnt want to live back then.

Yes Baron I am really interested in the history and I would love to learn Armenian history again from a more mature viewpoint than 7th grade history class.

Nope, I just took that one question and answered it. Nothing to do with money.
xBaron Dants
12-07-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by TigranJamharian money feeds you and destroys you anon? Is that what it says? that is why you wouldnt want to live back then.

Yes Baron I am really interested in the history and I would love to learn Armenian history again from a more mature viewpoint than 7th grade history class.

Then read Derenik Demirdjian's book. It's been a while since I read it, but I remember being very very interested by it.
dstyle
12-08-2003, 10:35 AM
ya i thought i kinda knew history. big ups 2 me. but ya what vartan and his troops did was amazing.
TigranJamharian
12-08-2003, 02:08 PM
Yeah i definately will read the book. Do you know where i can find it?

Anon i was talking about your quote thing on the bottom. Quid me nutrit me destruit
ckBejug
12-08-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Baron Dants

Im Hayrenyats hoki Vartan,
Hokis hokvooyt yeghni ghoorban,
Vor Dghmoodi aperi mod,
Vatsoon Hazar Gdrichnerov,
Zargir, Zargvar, Ingar Kach kach
Barsige spradz i tsakh ou ach.

Anyone know that song?



OMG!! Baron, I remember that song from when I was in middle school. You just brought back a billion memories...........
Nimrod
12-25-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by TigranJamharian Yes agains the turks also. but that was in 1920

Dont you know about Vartan Mamikonian against the Persians and how we held them back when they wanted to convert us to fire worshipers. That was back in 451 Ad i think. Im not sure because I havent gone to Armenians school since 8th grade so I forgot all my dates.

These people need to snap back into reality. They proved their false misinterpretation when they said "sarbarad" was when the Armenians battled Persians. Anyway, it surely was a victory because the Persians-- being the sycophantic bottom feeders-- they literally surrendered to the outnumbered Armenian troops when the battles were taking place. For some miraculously odd reason, the Persians were just TOO MUCH yet Vartan s nephew VAHAN finally took the matters into his own hands near the mountain top then suddenly the so called "mighty Persians" were not so mighty when they were fleeing away as they fell one by one to the Armenian forces as soon as they turned the tide towards Persians near that little mountain side. Amazing indeed. Had Armenians been more unified the Persians would not have even DARED to enter Armenia afterwards to even "Start" a "war."
xBaron Dants
12-30-2003, 06:21 PM
What was that story about the armenians being able to turn the persian elephants against the persians? I remember getting quite a kick out of that story back in the day.
TigranJamharian
12-30-2003, 06:27 PM
yeahhhhhhhhhh! i remember that. the elephants were drunk werent they? the persians got the elephants drunk to make them ferocious and attack. i dont remember how they turned them against them though. i think it might have just been that since they were drunk they attacked everyone in sight and couldnt be controlled.